"Obsession" weakens split theory?

Date: 07/08/2001
From: Blinker

In "New Gods for Old," the Sliders passed through a concentration of extremely similar worlds. Diana put this phenomenon down to the three Earths having branched off from the same "set of choice points." And all was good, for Sliders fans finally had onscreen confirmation of what most had always believed: that parallel worlds are created whenever a decision is made.

Okay, not *every*one was happy.

> I don't believe that Quinn or the Professor ever directly
> addressed the origin of parallel universes (or different
> dimensions), but Diana apparently did. Unless there is
> somewhere else on the show where this is more directly
> contradicted, we have to accept the split theory. I hate
> having to rely on a character created after Torme and
> Weiss left the show, but that seems to be all that we have.

[ EustiSlider, http://www.scifi.com/bboard/browse.cgi/1/5/545/20786/45 ]

Well, here's a thought: "Obsession."

The Prime Oracle orders his limo driver to take a run at Wade, because he knows from his glimpses into the future that Rembrandt will save her and set into motion a chain of events that ends with everyone learning a life lesson and going merrily on their way.

HOWEVER, the destiny he perceived is only one of countless possibilities.

On World #1, which we watched, everything goes off without a hitch.

On World #2, Rembrandt fails to react in time and Wade is killed then and there. The Prime Oracle is horrified, as his gift has never lied to him before. (More on this later.)

On World #3, Rembrandt's injury is treated by a doctor other than Dominique. The Sliders are unable to deliver Wade from Derek's clutches and end up missing the slide.

On World #4, Dominique *does* meet the Sliders and *is* aware of Wade's situation... but the Romeo & Juliet ploy never crosses her mind.

On World #5, a plan concocted by Arturo is used instead, unsuccessfully.

On World #6, Derek simply makes the decision that he isn't letting Wade leave...

And so on, down through infinity. If you think the odds of the *Oracle's* vision coming true are low, just think of the odds against all the *other* visions people have had on this world being borne out (to the point where actions based on foreknowledge are universally accepted practice.)

As far as I can see, reconciling "Obsession" with split theory would require an improbability of "DragonSlide" proportions. Somehow, the Sliders have managed to strike the one Earth out of a googol where virtually *every* prophecy to that day was correct... and even during their stay, more worlds are branching off in which this phenomenal run of luck finally collapses and no-one can figure out why the future has turned random.

And here's the killer: since all future timeline splits are equally valid until they've happened, what's to stop an Oracle from looking down different, *contradictory* paths and realizing that none of them is any more true than any other?

Occam's razor would be a whole lot happier with something tidy.

The secondary point is that the Sliders apparently saw *no* contradiction. You'd think that Quinn, who is undoubtedly familiar with the "many worlds" interpretation of quantum physics, would have brought this point up the moment he heard talk of predestination. That someone whose whole life had become traveling to split-off histories would be acutely aware that there *is* no one future to hone in on.

For that matter, if indeed he believed with Diana that choices create universes, he likely would have filled the others in on this fascinating aspect of life demonstrated by Sliding long ago and *they* could have made the connection.

And yet, everyone in the episode behaves as though each world is a separate entity with a linear timeline.

Oh, as for the S5 statement: like Tf says, 'the thing you have to remember is that Diana was not very bright.' In between failing to recognize the goal of the very project she oversaw and making up laughably redundant technobabble ("co-ordinates" became "a set of destination locations"), this is someone who'd theorize that Sliding from outside the landing radius could trap them in the wormhole forever.

That's why I'm going to say that she only invoked the many-worlds interpretation because she'd seen it in a sidebar in 'Newsweek' and figured it would make her look competent.

One more thought in this vein. If Geiger *had* managed to collapse the multiverse... how was he going to stop it from branching again afterwards? Did one of his machines hold the power to rewrite quantum mechanics, or would an infinity of worlds melded together be so dimensionally "massive" that they wouldn't be able to divide without re-colliding together?

Or did he know something about parallel world theory that Diana didn't?

So, what are your thoughts? Splits, or no splits? Without splits, how are we supposed to explain neighbouring world clusters like the Skirted Cops District, the Exodus Pair and the Krislov Zone? And just how many obvious errors in my arguments have I managed to overlook *this* time?

- Blinker 7:-P
http://slidersweb.net/blinker

Well

Date: 07/08/2001
From: DieselMickeyDolenz

As one who never cared for the splits theory (see above quotation), I have to point out that simply because three worlds' histories diverged at the same point in time, doesn't mean they were all created at that point. IF there were countless dimensions created at the beginning of time, presumably all of them would have identical histories until some decision or physical phenomenon happened differently. The 'choice point' Diana refers to, could be that time.

I'm sure there are still holes in each theory, but I like the argument you've presented, anyway.

DMD

Why I like 'splits' theory...

Date: 07/09/2001
From: ThomasMalthus

...and it's certainly not because it was proposed by Diana.

Let me go back to one of my favorite suppositions, that the Jake Barnes theory of parallel universes is correct. Universes take a lot of change to deviate, otherwise they tend to collapse back into each other. This could explain why the sliders would come across two or three really similar worlds all at once (whereas normally they would encounter completely different, unrelated worlds all the time).

Take the two worlds we saw in "Time Again and World". Not too much difference between them (women have beards, events take place a few minutes faster on the first world versus the opposite being true on the second). Perhaps these two worlds were on the verge of collapsing back into one, until the sliders saved Judge Nassau and the Constitutional movement. That would make them close together and it would make sense that the sliders would go from one to another.

Furthermore, perhaps this also explains why the sliders only tend to encounter one of a certain type of world, never to encounter similar worlds with the same big type of deviation. For instance "Prince of Wails". Obviously at some point this world split from our history where the Rebels won the American Revolution. For a while the worlds would stay close together until the changes between the two became so large that they couldn't remerge. Eventually big changes would happen within the framework of "the British win the American Revolution" in the same way as worlds have split off from "the Rebels win the American Revolution". But the sliders find it easier to reach this one world where that scenario occurred because it represents the original point of deviation. It is therefore 'closer' to Earth Prime. Also, this would explain why the sliders rarely reach a world that deviated more than a few hundred years before their time (world that deviated before then would be further from Earth Prime).

As for the entire concept of 'split' parallel worlds, to me it's the only way it makes sense. It should only be big changes (I'm not talking Sherry ate ice cream world vs. Sherry didn't eat ice cream world) that cause the deviation in parallel histories, but I think it could work as an explanation for parallel worlds.

If there were truly an 'infinite' number of parallel worlds, as has been stated several times on the show, how could that be an accurate description of a set number of universes that were created from the beginning of time? Wouldn't it have to mean that new parallel worlds were constantly being created, making it truly infinite (since nothing that physically exists is 'infinite', except supposedly the universe).

Wouldn't it be extremely hard for universes created separate from the beginning of time to have even remotely similar development or histories (assuming you except evolution as the prime mover of the devolpment of species and not a higher power such as God or fate or time)? Wouldn't the sliders be more likely to run into a world where lizards or insects evolved into highly intelligent beings as one where San Francisco's a prison?

Hmm...sleepy. Too late to think anymore. Must go to bed.

ThomasMalthus

A theory

Date: 07/09/2001
From: Sabre_Edge

What if "break-points" happen in iterations? And the "break-points" only result in only a small about of new worlds, maybe even 2 (the event happened or it didn't).

Maybe parallel world creation occurs on a Sine wave? Whenever that earths timeline hits the X-axis, a creation occurs. This time hit when the fog descended on General Washington allowing him to retreat his army, it hit when JFK was shot in Dallas, etc. The wave could be very frequent or very gradual.

This theory falls apart deciding *who's* decision the multiverse follows.

It does limit the infinitely spawning world idea. Admittedly, I have no basis for it, science-wise or show information. But it's something right?!

SE

my theories...

Date: 07/09/2001
From: Slidemania

First off, ThomasMalthus brings up a good point:

"If there were truly an 'infinite' number of parallel worlds, as has been stated several times on the show, how could that be an accurate description of a set number of universes that were created from the beginning of time?"

Now based on the designs of the timer's we've seen (Q'Ball's original, the Egyptians', and Rickman's), to travel to a new parallel Earth a set of 12-digit coordinates must be entered.

These combinations could range anywhere from:
000-000-000-000
to
999-999-999-999

For example, the coordinates to Kromagg Prime were 405-134-101-118....however, Quinn and Colin had to search for a logarithm to add on to those coordinates, in order to bypass the Slidecage. As we saw in "Revelations," Isaac Clarke gave the sliders an addendum logarithm that, of course, ended up taking them to a Docile Kromagg World (Clarke's homeworld), an alternate version of Kromagg Prime. So in order to access Clarke's homeworld, you had to add an additional logarithm onto the end of the "405-134-101-118." So conceivably, the timer had enough characters to enable a slider to enter infinite combinations of logarithms onto each existent set of 12-digit coordinates, creating the means, at least in theory, to slide to an infinite number of parallel worlds. This accomodates the theory that new parallel universes are always being formed.

"Oh, as for the S5 statement: like Tf says, 'the thing you have to remember is that Diana was not very bright.' In between failing to recognize the goal of the very project she oversaw and making up laughably redundant technobabble ("co-ordinates" became "a set of destination locations"), this is someone who'd theorize that Sliding from outside the landing radius could trap them in the wormhole forever."

Um, that was only ONE of Diana's many theories as to what *MIGHT* happen if they slid outside their traditional radius. If I recall correctly from "Heavy Metal," she had a number of hypotheses as to what *MIGHT* happen if they slid outside their radius, and getting trapped inside the wormhole happened to be one of them. And really, all theories were fair game, since the sliders had never tried sliding outside of their radius before, and therefore, they didn't KNOW what would happen if they did so. The aforementioned cynicism is so obviously a dig at Diana, and a rather weak one, at that.

"One more thought in this vein. If Geiger *had* managed to collapse the multiverse... how was he going to stop it from branching again afterwards? Did one of his machines hold the power to rewrite quantum mechanics, or would an infinity of worlds melded together be so dimensionally "massive" that they wouldn't be able to divide without re-colliding together?"

As for Geiger's quest to merge infinite parallel universes together, his quest was ultimately in vain, since from the concept of infinite parallel universes it only follows that it would take an infinite amount of time to merge EVERY Earth in the multiverse. I think Geiger main concern was merging enough universes together to stabilize himself...he would have been happy with that, and once he accomplished that goal, he would have simply continued merging parallel universes together for the rest of his life in the name of science, knowledge, and curiosity.

Woooooahhhhh....

Date: 07/09/2001
From: Recall317

I always knew "Obession" would come back to bit the show in the ass. Blinker is right. You can't predict the future for any specific dimension when all futures are possible.

As for my take on parallel worlds, I believe that all permutations, be it an electron moving left instead of right, creates a new dimension. It's bad for fiction, but I do believe it's what's really happening.

As for the show's physics, I don't think anyone ever intended for them to be dealing with a true infinite amount of dimensions. Alt-Quinn makes reference in the pilot that there may be hundreds, even thousands of earth in THIS multidimensional plane for something to that effect. It suggests a local phenomenon and the the multiverse may be divied up differently than we'd expect. Of course, you couldn't possibly hope to explain it, but the Helix spiral is also inadequately accounted for and no one seems to complain.

"Obsession" does violate the pseudo-rules of "Sliders." So does "As Time Goes By" (and rather flagrantly.) For me, it doesn't take away from them as episodes. Some may say that's hypocritical because I mercilessly slam "The Exodus" for similar errors, but I consider violations of your own theoretical physics to be a lesser offense than careless and stupid mistakes made over known physical properties.

Nice pickoff, Blink.

R317

"Summer of Love" and 'Maggs, too.

Date: 07/09/2001
From: DieselMickeyDolenz

I think this was from "Summer of Love," anyway. In one of the first episodes, Quinn or Arturo makes a remark to the effect that there could be 6 or 6,000 parallel dimensions our there. If the splits theory is the one he subscribed to, wouldn't he have said that there were infinite dimensions?

Also, the Kromagg's multi-world domination makes splits unworkable. After all, worlds would undoubtedly split while the 'Maggs were on that world. That would create at least two sets of invasion forces, most of which would try to return from the same mission at the same time.

DMD

One possible theory...

Date: 07/09/2001
From: QBall79

Some have said that the splits occur at every choice point, playing out every possible outcome of every given scenario. I've never subscribed to this theory, because if that were true, then Geiger would have succeeded in merging the universes.

I tend to believe in a selective split process. It's obvious not every choice or movement results in a split, but it is possible that splits occur at certain points that hold some sort of significance, cosmic or otherwise. Perhaps God or fate or something out there decides where a split occurs for a specific reason. That could explain, for instance, why Geiger failed (God was protecting the multiverse from total collapse). As for "Obsession" world, perhaps the split occurred when a certain child was born with psychic abilities (whereas on the other world he didn't have those abilities) and never split again. Or perhaps the world only split at a point when there was not a pending prediction, or where the result of such a prediction would not be affected.

I may be grasping at straws here, but I think that if any split theory is viable, it would be one like the one I've described.

Q-Ball79
http://www.slidersweb.net/

Splitting Headache

Date: 07/09/2001
From: Callie21V

I'm content to believe that parallel dimensions only exist in certain alternate universes. :-D

>>> C/21

Food for thought

Date: 07/09/2001
From: TemporalFlux

First I would like to paraphase from something I read recently...I don't recall where. How arrogant is it of humanity to believe that the decisions *we* make are what create these realms of alternate realities? We judge the effect as the cause because ultimately we perceive ourselves in some degree to be the center of the universe.

The most probable scenario is that we are at the beck and whim of physics. The theory of quantum mechanics is based upon the minute...not the grand; and it is in this magnified view that we find out answer.

Have you ever asked yourself...did you really choose to wear red today, or was it really just the case that one neuron fired instead of another? One atom out of place shifted the charge in your brain. I mean, we like to think about ourselves as in complete control...but think about it. How many people are treated each year for depression because they had a chemical imbalance in their brain? Did they choose to be that way...or did they simply fall victim to the forces of nature?

The driving force behind alternate realities is not the choices we make...the driving force is whether an atom spun clockwise or counter-clockwise. That's the cause of the splits, in my opinion.

When looking at psychics (as in "Obsession"), I turn the prism some more. First of all, "Obsession" was not our only example during the series. "The Other Slide of Darkness" also featured a psychic...and if we are to believe her vision at the beginning of the episode, then she saw the future of Quinn's double. Then we must also reconcile "The Seer" - another psychic who saw both the future *and* into parallel worlds.

Again due to a problem of perception, we view these "psychics" as simply viewing things...a spectator, of sorts. Is that really the case? Or do the unused portions of our brain allow us to become sensitive to the movements of these molecules? To see probabilities the spin of these atoms may create before they actually happen...to influence them more than they believe.

Do we completely know what the Prime Oracle did that day? As Blinker mentioned, there were several things that could have gone wrong from the car accident. Was it really just coincidence that it worked out okay? Or did the Oracle influence more than even he may have realized.

The problem with inserting humanity into the equation is that we have several perceptual problems. The Prime Oracle believed he could alter the situation for the better...his subconscious took care of the details by rearranging the spin of atoms to match the probability he wanted. The psychic in "The Other Slide of Darkness" believe she was a slave of destiny. Therefore, the probability she fixed on as the absolute came to pass. The Seer...did he have the broadest power of all? To be able to sense and view atoms in the dimensional scape that were out of place? (like a sliding Rembrandt - which he focused on kind of like a pop song you can't get out of your head) And just what did The Seer influence without realizing? Was it really a coincidence that Rembrandt made it through relatively unscathed up until that time? (at least when you look at how he came through the five years compared to the three friends he started with)

The puzzle gains a few new sides when you begin to look at it. Were these people seeing down one time line...or were they in fact innocently shaping worlds to what they wanted? Something to think about.

As for my comments on Diana...I remember being more of an advocate of the fact that Diana just simply didn't know what would happen outside the radius (I remember defending against those who tried to say that Diana locked it in that outside of the radius was a bad thing - thus killing continuity). I stand by my reasoning that Diana was "stupid", though. Diana did not come to natural solutions like Quinn or Arturo...Diana had to work hard for it even by her own admission in several episodes. In my opinion, she had shoe horned herself into a profession she shouldn't have been in...and because of that, she often didn't understand alot of things despite of what technobabble she spewed. She was a research person...not a thinker. So when compared to Quinn and Arturo (who she was supposedly replacing), she was stupid. If she were compared to someone like me, she probably would be considered rather brilliant...but I really don't think that's the comparison most people made.

Tf
temporalflux@hotmail.com
http://www.dimensionofcontinuity.com

Weiss has implied Sliders ...

Date: 07/09/2001
From: Stax_

used the split theory.

If I remember correctly, in an interview for T.V. Guide given during the filming of Luck Of The Draw, Weiss defended the existence of the parallel universes of Sliders by saying there are aspects of the natural world that cannot be explained without them.

The theory that parallel worlds were created at the same time and exist independently of each other has NO BASIS IN ACTUAL PHYSICS .The parallel worlds theory used by physicists was devised to explain the anomalous behaviour of moving electrons .The conclusion to that theory was that ALL possible outcomes do occur, that parallel worlds are created for each pathway taken.

Weiss, in using physics to support the concept of Sliders, indirectly chose a theory .The split theory.

As I have mentioned above, alternate universes are created by sub atomic particles .Our choices are incidental, the side affect of these particle interactions .We perceive our choices as creating these universes, they do not .All we do is PERCEIVE them to .The impact of the choice on the universe doesn't factor.

Or so I think.stax

Original URL http://www.scifi.com/bboard/browse.cgi/1/5/545/26271
Nominated by Recall317