Let's
talk about sex, baby (NSR)
Date: 01/21/2001
From: Informant
Yes, I'm doing the dreaded reply to a post with a new post, but since I've had this on my mind for a while, it's not the same thing. And if it is, who cares? I'm the bboard friggin president. I can do what I want. :-)This post is rated PG-12
Parental supervision is advised beyond this point.
This is me ranting about sex. Teen sex. Casual sex. I'm the friggin Howard Stern of not having sex, and it's late so I can say anything I want and I won't regret it for another 8 hours.
I don't get what it is with this society that makes it seem like sex is just a natural and beautiful thing that people do when they fall in lust... I mean "love".
Let's take tv shows. Every damn tv show plays "Who Wants To Lose The V-Card" with their characters. It's a game that 22 year old actors play while pretending to be 15 years old. And it's stupid!I'm a virgin. Woohoo. Big deal! It's a choice. It's a choice a lot of people make, but is NEVER seen anywhere and it makes us seem like huge sluts. Girls pretty. Yes. But I am capable of thought. I'm not a monkey who will react to stimulation in a predetermined manner. I'm me. I control me.
Not all young people are like rabbits. But I'll get to the big eared, fluffy tailed ones later.I have a bunch of reasons for not wanting to have sex until I'm married. These are easily broken down into four groups.
Cause and Effect -
When choosing to have sex, you are choosing to accept the effects of said action. Sex is for reproduction. Thus, having sex means that you are ready to be a parent. I'm so not ready for that.
Also, there are like a billion diseases out there. Very disgusting diseases that aren't worth the moment of true happiness. People are all like "Let's cure AIDS!" and I'm like, "Well, maybe it would start to go away if you weren't a whore!" There are other ways to get it, but still, is it worth it? Do I want to die a slow death just so I can get the bliss factor with the head cheerleader in the back of some crappy car from 1970 while listening to Muskrat Love on the radio? Thanks, but no.
Bondage -
Yeah, I'm gonna write about that! I'm talking about something else!
To me, it seems that sex is something special. A bond created by two people who are in love and willing to be together forever. To become on unit. When I get married, I don't want memories of other people. I want one person to share that with. It's not about fun. It's about life. Creating life. Living life with the person you are going to be with forever. (I'm a rmantic Christian... I don't believe in divorce)
My Beliefs -
Being a Christian, I don't believe in sex before you're married.
There was another one, but I forget it.
I just don't see how all of this equals good fun for a lazy day. Sex isn't a game. It's reproduction. It's for one purpose when you get down to it. It may be fun-o-plenty, but it wasn't meant for that purpose.
Now to rant (Copyright 2001 HunterD_Raven All rights reserved) about teen sex, abortion, and tv sex...
Teens go around and have these BJ parties because they have some twisted Clintonian idea that if it's only oral, it's still moral. This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of in my life. Kids! 11 years old... 15 years old, whatever. Why do they do it? To be cool? To act all adult? Who the hell knows. They should just realize that they're not adults. They're kids. They should live it up while they have it, cause it goes away far too soon. It's sick, some of the stuff you hear. Do kids have no minds at all? Are they only able to follow what their bodies tell them they're ready for?
They bang all they want. Do the deed after that. Then follow it with a screw to top off the evening. Then they get pregnant, and end up killing the baby, making this the most disgust time to ever live in. Worse than the Nazi bullshit that we all feel so bad about (not that I don't feel sorry for those people too). Every day, thousands of babies in America are put to death without reason beyond the fact that their parents are skanky. Innocent children, murdered. Killed with no guilt by their killers in a lot of cases.
Partial birth abortions. I saw a lady on tv talking once about how she used to assist with them. It's not just the sick babies, y'know. That's what they say, as though that were okay to do.
She talked about how the doctor would let the baby come out, keeping it's head inside so that it "wasn't really alive". Then he would take a pair of scissors and jab it into the bad of the baby's head. Then, as the baby struggled in pain because of this disgusting practice, and as they felt every bit of it because they aren't deserving of pain killers, the doctor sucks their brains out, and makes the head collapse. Then he brings the dead baby out and tosses it in the garbage. This wonderful life who should have been welcomed into life is instead murdered in cold blood simply because their parents are giant sluts.Or Post-birth abortions for those abortions that just didn't quite take.
How about in other countries where they give birth to the baby, then smash it's head in. Maybe make soup out of it. Hey, it's all good, right?
One guy actually said that parents who give birth to sick babies should have a year to decide if they want their kid. During that year, they have the right to kill their sick baby and not pay a price. This worthless scrap of flesh is a college professor!
But if a lady's raped, it's okay, right? BULLSHIT! Y'know what, I'm sorry if you're raped. I really am. I'm sorrier of you get pregnant. But because you hate ehat happened to you, you don't get the right to commit murder. It's not okay to kill babies sometimes and not others. Sorry, but it's not the baby's fault. I can't say "Well, I normally think the baby is alive, but since you're all sad and stuff, I guess God can make an exception for you."
Rape is a horrible crime. But so is murder.To woman's fucking right to choose? Their bodies to do with what they want? Please. A lot of them are scarred for life. You never hear that, do you? Parents who realize what they've done, and never get over the fact that they murdered their babies.
And the ones who don't even think twice about it. They deserve the worst possible death.We all hate Hitler. We all hate the Nazi butchers and the KKK pieces of garbage. But what's worse? A threat that is open about their stupidity, or the threat that nobody seems to care about? In a few years, man will come to see what has happened. And when that time comes, we will all know who the monsters of the world really were. We'll eventually mourn for the innocent lives lost as humanity tried to make the world work as they'd prefer.
Now, on tv, sex is thrown around like crazy. No wonder stupid kids think it's the adult thing to do. They warn you about all these diseases and stuff, then they turn around and bump and grind. You never see a person say that they're waiting until they're married and actually stick to the plan. It's always a matter of giving it up because it's a beautiful and natural part of life. Free love. Peace man.TIME TO GET OUT OF 1968!
Do I blame tv for kids being stupid? No. I blame stupid kids and their parents. But I blame tv for being stupid.
And most of the time, it's just a way of covering up bad writing, as though the mindless viewers will fall in line once the leading man takes off his shirt and kisses the hot starlet. It's cheap. The best movies, and the best tv shows have no sex scenes. You can have romance without it. You can have far more meaningful romance without sex involved. Sex is a product of lust. Being able to have a sexless relationship is love... well, more so than lust. Not to say that a tv romance without sex is going to be deeper. But it makes people work harder.
Okay, I think I'm done... ooh wait! am I the only one who finds more than one of these acts a little... disturbing? Maybe it's my untained virgin mind, but just because you can do things with stuff and put things placed doesn't mean you have to! Not that there's anything wrond with that.
Okay, count how many tv shows I quoted! :-)
Did I mention it's late? I don't usually talk this much about sex when I'm fully awake. I think it's a private thing. I don't care to hear about other people doing it, and I don't usually care to share my thoughts on it. I just got started because of Charmed's post and my lack of sleep.
my
take on it
Date: 01/21/2001
From: Le_Modus
Yes this is a STRANGE thing here...I do believe that for the most part this country is brought up in its puritan history...and that is the #1 reason why people rebel in later life to have sex.
Cause and Effect
#1 Reason we are humans and not animals: for animals sex is for reproduction only...for humans sex is for two things: reproduction and the consummation of their love. Then does having sex mean you are ready to be a parent? No. The fact that you love someone does not mean you are ready to be a parent. It means you love that person, period. Sex is the highest physical way you can express that love (and mental way too).
And yes, there are a billion diseases out there. That is why I don't go out f*cking any woman I meet on the first night.
Bondage.
Hmmm.... I believe the opposite. I believe you can have sex with someone whether you love him/her or not...but the first time you make LOVE to him/her it has to be something special. And YES there is a difference between the two. A huge difference. The first time I had sex with a woman...she was kinda special but we don't really see/talk to each other more (its a distance thing) but the first woman I made love to I still talk to her and see her often. (it is strange that you bring this up now but we are planning of getting back together sometime over the summer).Beliefs.
What does being a Christian have to do with it anymore? So many Christians (and now Muslims and Jews) have been having sex before marriage that "I'm a Christian" just doesn't mean anything any more when they say they are virgins with it. For example, the Catholic church is officially against premarital marriage but most do it anyway. They are also against condoms and other forms of birth control, but 90% of those that have sex use some form of birth control.Sex isn't a game. Its not just reproduction either. Having sex for pleasure is one of the things that separate us from animals. It is not found anywhere else in the animal kingdom (so far based on what we know, that is)
LM
D
reply, it's late,
Date: 01/21/2001
From: HunterD_Raven
LOL, OK, first off thanks for remembering my copyright (LOL)One thing, your little thing on bondage, appearntly you don't know what Bondage is because Bondage can be just 2 people who do care about each other.
--
Now onto the issue that took up the major portion of your post, Abortion.
As you know as a general rule I agree with you on Abortion, yet I'll take up a few points and play Morningstars advocate (for those who don't know what that means, DO RESEARCH!)
First of all you cannot say every girl who has an abortion is a whore.
I am pro-waitng, I am one of the ten 19 year old male Virgins left in the USA who is a Virgin by choice.
But as for abortion being all bad, look at it this way, these people who run around shagging like they're stuck in an Austin Powers movie
Well I ask you, do we really want these people breeding?
--
Now I'm gonna nitpick with the few things I disagreed with, if it ain't here it either means I'm with ya or I'm not against you enough to debate you on it.
--
OK, for F*cks sake sayign we shouldn't try to get a cure for AIDS, come on man, should we also not try to do a cure for lung cancer cause people who got that smoked?
(Then again as much as I hate smokeing I'd probably be for that)
--
Now onto the Rape deal,
The thing you are not factoring in is the intesnse psychological pain you are forceing this woman to go through every day for around 9 months.
In that situation I could not blame a woman who went nuts and killed herself (and/Or others who where forceing her to keep the kid)
I'm sorry, but if the choice is subjecting a woman to that kind of torture or killing the kid, well then I think takeing the kid out early is more humane than downright tortureing an innocent woman.
I'm not saying it should be mandatory in cases or rape or incest, and if the mother decides she wants to go through with the pregnancy more power to her, but it shouldn't be forced on those who don't want too
I'm sorry, but to me makeing a rape victim carry the child is almost as bad as rapeing them yourself.
I'll admit it's not a situation of black and white.
but its a choice between tortureing one (possible resulting in the death of both) or the death of one.
--
Now onto a more relaxed point.
Abotu the 'best movies and TV shows have no sex in them'
Can you point me to these? because the best TV show on about now is Buffy.
And I swear if you tell me Touched By An Angel is one of the best shows on TV then you need some mental help ASAP!I'd agree the best movies don't usually have a whole lot of sex,my list of best is
The Crow (a bit of nudity and a lot of implied sex, which includes implied rape )
Matrix (no nudity, little sexual tension)
X-men (lots of tension, no acting on it)
and Dogma (No sex, although it is discussed somewhat...mostly cause Jay is horny 24/7)
--
D
(and remember, don't blame me Info started it!)
oh
BTW
Date: 01/21/2001
From: Le_Modus
Long time no see. How's it going?LM
Replies...
Date: 01/21/2001
From: Informant
Le Modus, I guess we just have different views on what sex is for. It is a neat thing, I imagine. For pleasure, sure. But I don't think it's something to be spread around.And the rules haven't changed the people have. I follow the rules because we can't up and change them. We'd like to, but we can't. Peer pressure doesn't change how things are.
And... did you ever give me you're post about how much you like Bush? We had that bet. mwahahahaha!
Hunter :Not every girl who has an abortion is a whore. But I think a lot of them are.
I'm pro-adoption. Kids should suffer for the sins of their father or mother. The parents could be AIDS infected crack whores for all I care. The kids should be born and live.
I never said that we shouldn't cure AIDS. I just said that a huge dent would be taken out of it if people didn't sleep around.
On rape... abortion is black and white (99.99999 percent of the time). It's murder. I will not say it's okay to kill a baby because it causes a mother pain. A baby is a living human being. I don't care if the mother had to be bound and gagged for nine months, and never recovers. We do not have the right to pick one life over another. What someone does to themselves is between them and God if we don't get there in time. What they do to a baby is something that we can and should step in on.Sometimes it isn't black and white. But it's still wrong to kill a baby. No matter what. The outcome may be bad, but I don't believe in taking innocent lives.
Buffy is the best written tv show. It's had sex. But let's face it, it wasn't on the top of it's game when Buffy and Riley were gong at it like rabbits. The show has talented writers. They pulled off a classy sex scene with Buffy and Angel, which wasn't cheap and had results that had meaning in them.
But when they show Spike and Harmony in the middle of it, or Buffy shooting for the big O with Riley, it becomes cheap. Cheaper than the show needs to be. The show is still good, but the more the have the more cliche it becomes.Do I have to point out "Where The Wild Things Are"?
You can imply sex. You can hint at it. But you don't need to show it.Never watched Touched By An Angel... but Little House is classic. The Twilight Zone. I love Lucy. Most "classic" shows have no sex, or very little.
Look at "Angel". Or "Roswell". They either don't do it, don't show it, or don't cheapen it.
Wow... I used "Angel" as an example of how "Buffy" should be. I think things are way wrong with this.
I'm working on a project that you may like, Hunter. A movie script based on "Buffy" and "Angel", set five years from now when both shows are off the air. I'll let you know when it's done so you can lie and say you read it.
More
reply
Date: 01/21/2001
From: Informant
I'm good. Today was a good day. I watched the Bush stuff, but it was weird cause I kept seeing "Buffy" things everywhere, even when they weren't there. I thought one guy reminded me of Jonathan. I coulda swrond I saw Aly and SMG, but it wasn't them, then I saw Clinton's goodbye speech and imagined him turning into a giant sname and eating Janet Reno.
Yesterday I had a dream where Dawn appeared out of nowhere and was my sister... yes, sister. Way too young for me. It was like a "Restless" dream. Like I knew she wasn't real, and I looked up and noticed that there was no ceiling. Like a tv set.
I'm either in serious need of a new "Buffy" or in need of more sleep.
Hunter...
Date: 01/21/2001
From: Informant
With bondage joke, I was talking about the first thing which came to mind in the sex talk with a lot of people. Y'know, like the hidden room just off the Oval Office used to be set up for.
Informant... updated and expanded version 2.0. Now with a harder edge and an advertising deal with several big brand companies.
Drink Coke. It's really good.
D
reply 2, It's later
Date: 01/21/2001
From: HunterD_Raven
OK
here we go again"On rape... abortion is black and white (99.99999 percent of the time). It's murder."
I'd gun closer to 90% but we mostly agree here." I will not say it's okay to kill a baby because it causes a mother pain. A baby is a living human being."
So was Jeffry Dhamer, so would I be if I killed your parents, just because your a living human being doesn't mean a bloody thing.
" I don't care if the mother had to be bound and gagged for nine months, and never recovers. We do not have the right to pick one life over another."
Once again if I recall you are pro-death penalty, that's picking one life over another.
You say later on you 'don't believe in takeing innocent lives' but you belive in ruining them if it fits your own idea of a 'higher morality'?
I really thing you'd proabably change your opinion on this if someone close to you got raped or something like that.
i can easily put myself into a brothers shoes or a friends shoes.
I'm sorry Info but I think forceing her to have the kid is a worse crime than rapeing her in the first place
.
"What someone does to themselves is between them and God if we don't get there in time. What they do to a baby is something that we can and should step in on."
See that's the difference Info, thing is you see this idea that you, and the 'moral' people of the world should be the 'bastions of morality' and 'paragons of virtue'
I don't.
Let's take this from another point.
Let's say this kids dad raped a girl, he's concieved and after youve Bound and gagged the mother the kid is born.
the mother then kills herself.
YOU have just KILLED the mother.
Yes YOU just like you put the gun against her head and pulled the trigger your own goddamn self!Now let's look at the kids life.
his mother killed himself before she could sign over any adoption papers so the kid is shifted from foster home to foster home, possibly a few abusive ones.
Maybe one locks him up in the basement because they want the check but not the reponsability of haveing a kid.
The kids life is a bloody ruin, and wishes he'd never been born.
--
You believe God let's kids into heaven right?
Well think of it as sending them there early instead of putting them at the 'risk' of not accepting Jesus.
"But it's still wrong to kill a baby. No matter what. The outcome may be bad, but I don't believe in taking innocent lives."
And it's wrong to torture people no matter what.
it's wrong to ruin innocent lives too info.We're never gonna agree on this.
i have a lot of empathy and sympathy for the girl in this situation, you for the kid.
I look at the human aspect, you look at the suppsoedly 'divne' aspect.
We're comeing from 2 different views here and we're never gonna agree.
I still say doing that to a girl is worse than killing her Info.
FAR, FAR worse.
Maybe it's because I view death a hell of a lot differently than you do.
but I think killing someone is a lot better than tortureing someone else.
You can say 2 wrongs don't make a right, but tortureing someone IS a wrong too
both options are 2 wrongs Info.
--
D
I'm
a virgin....
Date: 01/21/2001
From: Slidemania
Because I don't want to get AIDS, and I'll only have sex if I ever actually trust the guy.The abortion debate is moot. In fact, Laura Bush said on a Today show interview that she doesn't think Roe vs. Wade should be overturned.
I'm
a little late, but...
Date: 01/21/2001
From: Slider_Sarah
On most points, I don't agree with you, Infy. Sorry. But this is the way I think. I am not one of those people who go out and sleep with anyone. Or who sleep with a lot of people, but I do not neccessarily believe in waiting till marriage. I believe in waiting until you love someone, and that does not neccessarily mean until marriage. And when I say love, I mean love, not lust.However, popular culture, to me, seems to encourage young people to have sex. I'm not just talkign about TV and film, I'm talking music as well. A lot of current pop music, does talk about sex, and what's more, to get along in pop these days is to dress sexy. And yes, that does encourage sex in a way. Also, the 'club culture' that is resident in the UK these days, I don't know about the US is ALL based on sex. Clubs are used mainly for pulling. Which is one reason I'm not a fan of clubs. That and the shit music.
For the record, I am not a virgin. But I waited until 1) I felt I was ready and 2) I really loved the person. I couldn't do it any other way. Also remember that UK legal age is 16.
Abortion... I prefer adoption, but it's never as easy as it looks. And no man will ever be able to really understand the position a woman is in after rape, because he will never be in quite the same position. That's the way it is. But I still prefer adoption. And I definitely do not believe in birth-abotiony things. That is really sick, as opposed to just wrong.
"One guy actually said that parents who give birth to sick babies should have a year to decide if they want their kid. During that year, they have the right to kill their sick baby and not pay a price. This worthless scrap of flesh is a college professor!"
This guy is... beyond words. Ick.
I don't think sex cheapens tv all the time, but it can do. There is a fine line to draw.
Sarah.
P.S. this would be longer, but I'm going out to quiznight.
Hunter,
Hunter, Hunter! (and others)
Date: 01/21/2001
From: Informant
Hunter, I see abortion as no less than a brutal murder. I see killing an unborn baby as exactly the same as killing chubby Timmy the five year old down the street.
"Once again if I recall you are pro-death penalty, that's picking one life over another. You say later on you 'don't believe in takeing innocent lives' but you belive in ruining them if it fits your own idea of a 'higher morality'?
I really thing you'd proabably change your opinion on this if someone close to you got raped or something like that.
i can easily put myself into a brothers shoes or a friends shoes.
I'm sorry Info but I think forceing her to have the kid is a worse crime than rapeing her in the first place "
I would NOT change my mind if something happened to someone close to me. In fact, if that person had an abortion, they'd probably no longer be anywhere around me.
I can easily put myself in the shoes of other people. Sometimes I scare people when I do that because I've tried it with murderers (which is a sick place to be). I'm not saying that it wouldn't ruin a life, but it's better to have one ruined life and one life with a chance at happiness than to have one ruined life and one dead baby.Women who have abortions often feel like murderers for the rest of their lives. Plus, the chick was just raped. She's gonna have issues to deal with anyway. At least with my way, there is some good that comes out of it. A baby is not a monster, or an action figure that isn't real until it says it's first words. It's a wonderful life.
Maybe you'd change your mind if someone close to you had a child.
See that's the difference Info, thing is you see this idea that you, and the 'moral' people of the world should be the 'bastions of morality' and 'paragons of virtue' I don't.
Let's take this from another point.
Let's say this kids dad raped a girl, he's concieved and after youve Bound and gagged the mother the kid is born.
the mother then kills herself.
YOU have just KILLED the mother.
Yes YOU just like you put the gun against her head and pulled the trigger your own goddamn self!
Now let's look at the kids life.
his mother killed himself before she could sign over any adoption papers so the kid is shifted from
foster home to foster home, possibly a few abusive ones.
Maybe one locks him up in the basement because they want the check but not the reponsability of haveing a kid.
The kids life is a bloody ruin, and wishes he'd never been born. "
Hunter, I expected a better fight from you. This is just not a good one at all. You seem to think that the mother is a person and the baby is not. I'm not being super Christian here, I'm being logical. Using your logic, it would be okay for a raped woman to kill her neighbor's kid because she's upset about being raped and it either gonna kill someone else or kill herself. If I stopped her from doing that, and she killed herself, am I the one who put the gun to her head?
Also, you use a lot of "What if" lines for this kids life. And it doesn't make things ANY better. I know a lot of people who wish they weren't born sometimes, and they all come from being born the old fashioned way. So... should they have been smothered to death when they were babies just so they could be freed from the pain of their lives? Please!
That's stupid.Okay, let's use another story.
Say the pregnant raped lady goes through nine months of torture and pain, and can't stand to think of the awful beast that grows inside of her. (she's mental in this case, because the kid's an innocent, but I move on...)
Now, it's not probable that she'd give birth, but kill herself before she can sign adoption papers. I mean, there are nine months building up to that, and then her stay in the hospital that just has really bad supervision of suicidal people if they let her kill herself before she is released... if released at all.So it's more probable that she'd have signed adoption papers long, long ago, but even if not, we'll get to the other story later...
So the kid is put up for adoption. Poor thing is a finalist for Rosie O'Donnell's next, but is just passed up for another one. So the kid waits a while and then a middle class couple who is unable to have children of their own comes in and adopts him.
Having some rage in him because of his genetics, he has a rough youth, but because he had good parents, he grows out of that. He becomes a cop eventually. A path NOBODY thought he'd take, but there was a police man who was a good friend to him when he needed one.
Anyway, so the unwanted baby police guy is out patroling one night in the park and he sees a woman being attacked by a guy with a knife. He stops the attack, but the guy charges at him. He shoots. BAM! the guy goes down. As a result of this useless, unwanted demon baby being born, he stops another monster from doing to another woman what his birth mother went through.Or, hey, maybe he had a doctor friend growing up and becomes a doctor in the ER and saves hundreds of lives.
Or a scientist who figures out how to send men to Pluto in one hour.
Or, say his poor mom didn't have time to sign adoption papers before she jumped out the hospital window to her death. As a result, her family gets the baby. They decide, while it's roots are from evil, the baby isn't evil. They lost their daughter, but they now have the chance to help raise a new life. So they do, and the baby grows up great and happy. Has three kids of his own, but never does anything too special.
The point is, the world can't work on "What if". A tv show based on that, if there ever was one, would probably be a huge hit, but life doesn't work that way. The basic facts are, this baby isn't a monster, it's a baby. That is all I care about. I care about the mother. I feel sorry for her beyond words. But being raped isn't an excuse for someone to become a murderer.
"You believe God let's kids into heaven right? Well think of it as sending them there early instead of putting them at the 'risk' of not accepting Jesus. "
Why are you treating me like I'm some sort of Christian freaky wacko guy? If I thought like this, I'd be out there killing every kid I saw. This isn't a good way to think, it's a mental problem.
"We're never gonna agree on this. i have a lot of empathy and sympathy for the girl in this situation, you for the kid.
I look at the human aspect, you look at the suppsoedly 'divne' aspect. We're comeing from 2 different views here and we're never gonna agree. I still say doing that to a girl is worse than killing her Info. FAR, FAR worse. Maybe it's because I view death a hell of a lot differently than you do.
but I think killing someone is a lot better than tortureing someone else. You can say 2 wrongs don't make a right, but tortureing someone IS a wrong too
both options are 2 wrongs Info. "
Okay, stop treating me like I have to ride the little bus to school and listen to me! I AM NOT against abortion because I'm a Christian. They fit together, but I'd be just as anti-abortion if I didn't believe in anything. I'm against killing babies. If that's not human, then screw humanity.
I care aout the mother to. I do. Go, mommy!
But I also don't think the baby isn't an unfortunate mistake that should be dealt with. It's a human being. A life. If the mother wants to end that life, the mother is no different than any other murderous pig out there.
I'M not human about this? I'M not caring about the human issues unvolved? I'm just being another Christian nut, just like everyone else you know, aren't I, Hunter?
Well, get your head out of your ass and listen! The baby is HUMAN! It's not a goldfish.I have a rather relaxed view on death. I have to watch myself around people who are more sensitive about it. I don't fear death, or feel sorry for the people that died unless it was in a horrible way, but still...
I probably have the most relaxes feelings about death as anyone I know, you included. But I think that EVERYONE has the right to live. It's not up to us to pick and choose who we see fit to let live. Otherwise, that freak of a college professor would be killing 11 month old sick babies. To me, what you're suggesting is no worse than that at all.If anyone is being all sunshine and daisies about this, it's you. "Oh, it's just dandy to kill someone in order to help a woman get over issues that she has after being raped."
You just gloss right over the fact that you're killing a human being.
Slidemania, Laura Bush said that they shouldn't overturn RvW, but that doesn't mean that they won't work to eventually end abortion. They believe that you can't just end it flat out. You have to ease people into it and change minds, otherwise you'll have all sorts of problems arise. While I agree with them, I mourn for the babies that will die while they do this.
Sarah, abortion isn't about me not understanding what a woman goes through. I understand. I do. However, it is not the right of the woman to murder. I know a lot of women who agree with me. It's not a man/woman issue, it's a right/wrong issue. While I still argue that it's possible to rape a man, I won't even go there. It's not the point.
On the sex issues, I guess I just have an opinion that isn't of the popular belief. I see it as the ultimate bond with someone. Something to be saved to THE someone. Probably the romantic in me :-)
Ooh, and Hunter, don't think I'm more upset with you than usual. I'm just in my new, louder mode.
Eat M&M's. They're yummy.
Hmm...
Date: 01/21/2001
From: Charmed07
I'm definitely not getting into another abortion debate.Been there,done that.I took your advice and dumped Blake.Because what I realized is,he wasn't a person I could ever respect.
My friend Rachel(she's a 16-year old sophmore) told me once that I should never have sex with a person I didn't at least respect.I don't have to be in love with the guy,but if I don't at least respect him the sex will not be worth it.
D
reply 3 (no late stuff this time)
Date: 01/21/2001
From: HunterD_Raven
I understand your not against abortion cause your Christian, Heck I barely consider myself Christian and I'm against it as a general rule.There is a difference between the woman aborting the baby and killing someone elses child.
The differance is the child is in her own body.
--
I don't think abportion should be totally illegal.
Let's try the story game again shall we (i'm trying a different point, stick with me)
The thing is this.
Let's say I knew a girl who was in love with a guy, they got engaged and the nigth they got engaged had sex figureing "we're gonna get married'The girl finds out a couple of months later that she is pregnant, she tells her fiance.
her fiance then ditchs her not wanting a kid.
She thinks about gettign an abortion
I tell her I'm against it, I don't think it's right and to put the kid up for adoption.
She decides to have an abortion anyway.
It doesn't change my relationship with her in the slightest, she's still my friend.
Same would be true if the girl had been raped or something.
---
I can't agree with tortureing a woman by forceing her to have the child of someone who raped her.
--
you say maybe I'd have a different opinion if someone close to me had a child.
My sister has 4 now.
Ages 2-7-10-14
--
Ok, I did not mean 'human side' as in all humanity. or that you're forgetting about people for God.
i misphrased that,
I think more about the mother than i think you do.
You think more about the Child than I do.
--
By the way, You make the wrong argument with "it's a HUMAN life, nto a goldfish"
I like most Goldfishs I've seen...
--
Eh, I'm not the guy to be argueing about this anyway.You know those old movies where there is this one guy left on earth and he's all heartbroken because no one is left?
I'd be like that guy in the Twilight Zone episode.
i'd get myself together a bunch of books and be happy since I could read and not have anyone bitching at me.
--
In New Orleans not long ago there was this rash of Pitbulls biteing the owners kids.
I felt sorry for the Dogs being put to sleep.
the damn kinds probably mistreated them, just liek the parents probably ahd to make the pitbulls mean (one was named SATAN, you do NOT name a family pet you treat with love and kindness SATAN unless you are a SATANIST!)
I felt sorry for the 'Satan' who bit the girl, more than I did the girl.
i've seen lots of little kids mistreating animals, Animals don't attack people unless people do something to them.
--
I just went off on a totally different direction.
Like i said before, i'm not the guy to be argueing this.
That
still isn't right though...
Date: 01/21/2001
From: Informant
Just because a baby in unfortunate enough to have a woman who would abort it as a mother, that is not reason enough to say that it's okay to kill the baby. The baby is inside of her, it is a totally different life though. A woman had no right to kill a baby. No more than a man has the right to do it. Or the lady next door has.If a stroller was rolling toward a cliff and the mother of the baby was like "Oh well, I can have another one. Let it go" I'd run after the stroller and save the kid. It's the same exact thing. A life is a life. Not one of us can judge who get the right to live and who doesn't. If someone does make that choice, they deserve death themselves.
There
is a big differance
Date: 01/21/2001
From: HunterD_Raven
The woman who's carriage is rolling down the hill, the kid isn't in her body.
It isn't a child of a psychopath.
There is a big differance.
--
You see it as saveing a life.
I see it as ruining one.
We aren't gonna agree.
--
Like I said I'm not the person to be argueing this I can like a person but still despise the species.
See I think a person can be smart, but people are dumb stupid panicky species.
if everyone but me died tomorrow.
First I'd mourn for some of my family & friends (that includes all you online people).
THEN I'd be pissed I never got laid.
but as for every other person.
a proverbial shrug.
--
D
ALSO
Date: 01/21/2001
From: HunterD_Raven
just pointing out a gapeing hole in your logic
"it's wrong to pick one life over nother.if i threatened to kill you then came at you with a knife, and you shot me.
Then you just picked one life over another.
--
I have no moral preconcepts as to picking one life over another.
thing is if I had to pick my dogs life or say Jerry OConnels.
My dog lives.
Infact the only time I'd have to even pause and think "which one"
is if it was one of my few nice relatives or one of my friends.
other than that
My dog lives.
--
NOW i am done with this.
Finished.
--
D
Hunter
Date: 01/22/2001
From: Informant
Really, not to be rude, but anyone who would shug off the death of a kid isn't a very human person. Older people can fend for themselves. But I can't just sigh and walk away when a baby is in danger.Self defense or justice are different animals. In those cases, the killee chose that path themselves. They put their own butts in front of my gun carrying self.
I can shrug off death as much as the next person when it comes to most people. But not helpless children. Id' think that that was a basic feeling in most people. To protect kids as a parental instinct. But I guess I'm wrong. I guess it's just because I like kids.
My
take on this issue.
Date: 01/22/2001
From: SingularVisions
<--- (begin Informant)Okay, stop treating me like I have to ride the little bus to school and listen to me! I AM NOT against abortion because I'm a Christian. They fit together, but I'd be just as anti-abortion if I didn't believe in anything. I'm against killing babies. If that's not human, then screw humanity.
I care aout the mother to. I do. Go, mommy!
But I also don't think the baby isn't an unfortunate mistake that should be dealt with. It's a human being. A life. If the mother wants to end that life, the mother is no different than any other murderous pig out there.
I'M not human about this? I'M not caring about the human issues unvolved? I'm just being another Christian nut, just like everyone else you know, aren't I, Hunter?
Well, get your head out of your ass and listen! The baby is HUMAN! It's not a goldfish.<---- (end informant)
(begin SV) ---- >
Informant -- I realize that there is some passion regarding your position for Pro-Life. However, there is one thing that you seem to be ignoring: A 3 month old fetus is *not*, I repeat, *NOT* a baby, nor is it human. It's only a *potential* human, a *potential* life. You are not murdering anyone or anything by aborting a pregnancy at that stage. Is the nobel prize given for a *potential* discovery?<--- (end SV)
<---- (begin Informant)I have a rather relaxed view on death. I have to watch myself around people who are more sensitive about it. I don't fear death, or feel sorry for the people that died unless it was in a horrible way, but still...
I probably have the most relaxes feelings about death as anyone I know, you included. But I think that EVERYONE has the right to live. It's not up to us to pick and choose who we see fit to let live. Otherwise, that freak of a college professor would be killing 11 month old sick babies. To me, what you're suggesting is no worse than that at all.
(end informant) ----->
<----- (begin SV)
What are we talking about here? Abortion or killing babies? Anyways...
Okay, you've made your point. Everyone has a right to life. HOWever -- everyone also has the right to a GOOD life. Say a raped teenage mother has a baby. She hasn't even gotten to live her own life yet but because of the actions of one disgusting monster, she has to choose between whether or not to have the baby. Say she chooses to have the baby and she is forced to go on welfare. Why? Because her own unqualified experience (while she's still in high school) does not allow her to have a job.
She raises the child while going to school and after several years is able to get a job. *Then*, when the child is old enough, he/she asks where they come from. And/or who the father is. The mother, like the human BEING she is, decides to tell the kid a little white lie. His/her father died or left before the kid was born -- never to come back. The mother gives him/her the name of the father.
After the child him/herself is an adult we find that they're a normal human being in school, working for a degree in law or whatever. Then, through some research for a college term paper on say...maybe Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice, or even Rape itself, they come across an article in the newspaper. The article is dated several years back, revealing the name of the father and the incident in when and where the rape occurred. That individual takes the information back to their mother and inquires her about this. The mother, finding herself in a position where she can no longer hide the truth, dispels the truth to the kid. Now the kid knows that he/she is the product of a rape victim.
Now would *you* want to wish that kind of a life on that kid? To feel like you are not the product of a loving relationship? To feel that you were not the product of a healthy relationship? To feel that you were actually the product of an action where whenever the mother looks at you, you feel as if she's remembering what happened to her?
Now...think of all the poor kids in third world countries (and even here in the US) that have to go around starving and suffering when their parents are doing their best to provide a good life. Still, the economics of that particular country/region just won't allow anything better than a penny a day (for comparisons). Should those children have to go through all that just because "everyone has a right to life."?
Think about that for a second.
------> (end SV)
<---- (begin Informant)
If anyone is being all sunshine and daisies about this, it's you. "Oh, it's just dandy to kill someone in order to help a woman get over issues that she has after being raped."
You just gloss right over the fact that you're killing a human being.-----> (end informant)
<--- (begin SV)
Informant -- once again, you are ignoring the facts in this situation. An unborn baby is NOT, I repeat, NOT a human being. In pure fact -- it is a hunk of flesh with a potential for life, whether you like it or not. Just because it's a potential life does not mean that abortion of the fetus is murder. Would you give a nobel prize to a scientist that had the potential to make a discovery? Would you arrest a *potential* shoplifter that was thinking about the crime but would never do it? Then by all means, put 99.9% of the human population in jail. Let's all go out and give a nobel prize to that talented scientist for a potential discovery he'll make ten years from now. I'm sure he'll be thrilled! =)
----> (end SV)
<---- (begin Informant)Slidemania, Laura Bush said that they shouldn't overturn RvW, but that doesn't mean that they won't work to eventually end abortion. They believe that you can't just end it flat out. You have to ease people into it and change minds, otherwise you'll have all sorts of problems arise. While I agree with them, I mourn for the babies that will die while they do this.
-----> (end Informant)
<---- (begin SV)
All sorts of problems will arise no matter what happens. I really doubt that anyone from either side of the debate will be used to any changes leading up to ending abortion (if it ever happens). IMO, four years from now (if it doesn't happen sooner) Bush will be elected out of office and Gore (if he chooses to run) will run for office and win the presidency. There is no way that anyone will ever change all the minds of the nation to one particular point of view unless it's through brainwashing.
-----> (end SV)
- SV
Reply
to SV...
Date: 01/22/2001
From: Informant
"Informant -- I realize that there is some passion regarding your position for Pro-Life. However, there is one thing that you seem to be ignoring: A 3 month old fetus is *not*, I repeat, *NOT* a baby, nor is it human. It's only a *potential* human, a *potential* life. You are not murdering anyone or anything by aborting a pregnancy at that stage. Is the nobel prize given for a *potential* discovery?"
I believe that life begins at conception. There is scientific and Biblical ways to back this up. Which would you prefer?
I also believe that how you're forced to live doesn't mean you can't be happy. There can be homeless people who are happy. There can be a rich doctor living with a hot wife in a 3 billion dollar home after being raised by the best parents, and that guy could wish he was never born. But that's not the issue. I don't care how people will live, I care that they do get to live. Every person deserves a chance at life. Every person has the right to spin the wheel and see what they get. It's not up to you or to me to decide that we don't deem them worthy enough to live. If that were the case, no child would be born without limbs. No child would be born who would be blind. They'll have hard lives, but a lot of them love life. Life is a gift, no matter what you get, or how long you have it for. Live it how you want, but nobody has the right to take that gift from you..
"Slidemania, Laura Bush said that they shouldn't overturn RvW, but that doesn't mean that they won't work to eventually end abortion. They believe that you can't just end it flat out. You have to ease people into it and change minds, otherwise you'll have all sorts of problems arise. While I agree with them, I mourn for the babies that will die while they do this. "
A couple hundred years ago, everyone thought the world was flat. The smartest people in the world thought this.
People thought the sun revolved around the Earth.
People thought that man evolved from apes.
People thought it was a great idea to burn "witches" at the stake.
People thought that Star Trek Voyager could be a good show, and that UPN had a chance to be a successBut in the end, people were proven wrong (though some still latch to the ape thing for some reason).
The fact is that this isn't a point of view that needs changing. It's making facts clear. It's not brainwashing that proved these things wrong. It's the fact that they're wrong that people now know to be fact.
WHOO!
It's too bad I'm really tired.....
Date: 01/22/2001
From: PHOENIXZERO
I would really dig into this topic, bu for now I'm gonna give you the political response.
Legally abortion shouldn't be legal or illegal. Roe vs Wade (Heh) shouldn't even be needed for this case. I'm gonna say it, I am a Lebertairian and government should not have any hand in this issue AT ALL! They will just end up screwing it up. Just as they do with everything.Like it or not this falls under being a right to privacy since no one except the mother knows she is pregnent. That can be hidden as it has been where girls can be in their last days of pregnancy and no one could know.
I would hate to see what kind of world we would be living in where it is illegal to decide what you can and cannot do with your own body, YES YOUR OWN BODY! An unborn child within the first trimester is usually dependant on the mother, thus it is sort of like a body part after the second trimester, that's when things start to get messy. (Cue double meaning)
Uhh, I should have waited to write this later when I was more awake... My brain isn't working too well right now being it's almost 7am and I need to go to sleep.
I am not a religious person by anymeans. I am nowhere enar beling religious. (It's all a scam people!).
Uhh, what the hell was I talking about... AHHHHHH SHIT! (I'll be back later)...
I ned sllleeeeppppppzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
One
for Le_Modus
Date: 01/22/2001
From: BritSlider
"Sex isn't a game. Its not just reproduction either. Having sex for pleasure is one of the things that separate us from animals. It is not found anywhere else in the animal kingdom (so far based on what we know, that is)"Not true! :-)
Actually dolphins have been observed to engage in recreational sex, but they are the only creature apart from man that does.
Should we condem them for doing this because it is immoral, or can we just blame it on their animal instincts? Dolphins are generally regarded as one of the smartest animals on the planet; does this mean that all the other animals should wake up to the fact that sex can be highly enjoyable as well as it's use for procreation?
Cheers m'dears
BritSlider
My
2cents
Date: 01/22/2001
From: SweetOne
Warning I've only had 2 hours of sleep so I apologize in advance for any typos I will reread this before I post but I can't promise anything.I know 2 women personally who have been raped one of them being my mother, the other a very close friend. While my mother has been able to get over it, my friend still has nightmares about this terrible thing that happened to her. Thank God neither of them became pregnant as a result. I am very much against abortion. It is a permanant solution to a temporairy problem. There are so many people who desperately want children but are unable to have them, they would give anything to love a child no matter where he/she came from. If I were to become pregnant from a rape I would not kill the child. I would probably give it up for adoption. I think abortion is MURDER plain and simple. Life begins when one sperm finally finds its way to the egg. Of that I have no doubt. Just because some Doctor somewhere decided to call it a fetus and say it has no life value until it is (I think) 24 weeks doesn't make it so. That was simply a way to justify murder of innocent children.
If humans could control their sexual urges until after marriage the rate of STD's and Abortions IMO would drop dramatically. As we all know abstaining is the best birth control.
Must have sleep. Will try to post more later when I can think more clearly.
SweetOne
"Never close your lips to those to
whom you have opened your heart."
Charles Dickensps Charmed I am very proud of your decision.
And to all our board virgins I applaud you.
Infy,
Date: 01/22/2001
From: Slider_Sarah
I wasn't saying that men don't get raped, because they do. I was just pointing out that no man can ever get pregnant from that and therefore will never be in the same position.And someone applauded the virgins on the board. I would like to just applaud those who are not sluts, because I see nothing wrong with having sex as long as you are responsible. And I don't think anyone here is a lut, so that means everyone :-) Unless of course I'm wrong.
Sarah.
Not
in the same way...
Date: 01/22/2001
From: Informant
Men have been used and lied to in order for a woman to get pregnant. They've also been forced to pay for a child that they didn't want. They've also been forced to live without the child that they did want.Men get screwed too, but in a different way.
But that's not the point. It is different, and I realize the trauma that women go through. But being a victim isn't an excuse for becoming the attacker.
Hmm.
Date: 01/22/2001
From: Charmed07
I remember this movie where a disturbed guy kidnapped his girlfriend because he didn't want her to have an abortion.Which begs the question-is a woman wanted to have an abortion,but the father didn't want her to-does he have any right at all in stopping her?
He
should...
Date: 01/22/2001
From: Informant
A guy should have some say in the fate of his baby. I mean, if he doesn't want it and she does, he has to pay for it (and rightly so) so if he wants it and she doesn't why shouldn't she have to listen?If I got some gal pregnant, and she had an abortion, I'd live the rest of my life knowing that my baby was murdered. I may not have known the baby, but I would feel the loss and never get over it.
Some people say that this is stupid because they don't believe that abortion is murder. But Nazis didn't think that it was wrong to kill Jews. It's a matter of opinion. We feel the loss of those people. They don't.
Infy
and SV.....
Date: 01/22/2001
From: Slidemania
The new First Lady said that she wants to see the number of abortions REDUCED...she never said anything about working toward the goal of eliminating abortion completely.And Singular Visions, what makes you so sure that Gore will be elected in 2004?....my money's on Gray Davis!!
A
common argument...
Date: 01/22/2001
From: Real_Slider
A common argument against abortion is that the hypothetical baby could grow up to find a cure for AIDS or cancer, or make some other incredibly momentous discovery.The naturally common srgument against it - and I have seen some use it on this board - is that if allowed birth, the person could grow up to be another Charles Manson or Adolf Hitler.
To those who endorse this argument I present the following question:
If you were driving out in the middle of nowhere and came upon an overturned vehicle with no survivors except a young boy who was trapped underneath the vehicle, and you had the power to save him (even if you didn't), would you try to save him?
This kid could grow up to be the doctor who cures cancer or AIDS, or he could become the next Adolf Hitler. Perhaps traumatized by the loss of his family, he could turn psycho and become the next Charlie Manson.
Would you save him?
If your reasoning were consistent, you would let the kid die, but when presented with the question in this situation, given the chance to save this child, I hope your answer would match mine, which is yes. I know this isn't the best analogy, but I hope it allows some of you to see how I feel about this issue, and why I will continue to do everything in my power to speak out against those who are allowing and causing these young, innocent human beings to suffer untimely and unjust deaths.
I know some of you will be tempted to come back and say "It's not the same! A fetus is not a human!" That may be what *you* believe - this is not what *I* believe. As I said above, I am trying to help you see why I feel the way I do on this issue. It is my belief that once the egg is fertilized, we have a tiny human in the earliest stages of development. A life just as important and precious as that of the young boy trapped under the car, and just as deserving of the right to life.
Now that I'm through with that, I have a question for SingularVisions as well. You said, "Everyone has a right to life. HOWever -- everyone also has the right to a GOOD life."
Where is this written?
keepin' it real,
Real_Slider
I
gotta say...
Date: 01/22/2001
From: FogBoy
You put "sex" in the subject line for a post, and suddenly the board is hoppin' like old times. DAMN.
For
being a "true Christian"......
Date: 01/22/2001
From: dmSylva
You sure are judgemental."To woman's fucking right to choose? ......................And the ones who don't even think twice about it. They deserve the worst possible death."
You might want to act holier than thou right now, but when it comes down to it, and all your sins are added up, remember that we are judged as harshly as we judge others. Will you be judged by truth, compassion, and understanding? Or the blindness of fire and brimstone?
No one is truly without sin.
Replies....
Date: 01/22/2001
From: Informant
Oh, I know I'm a sinner. And I never said that I'd be happy putting people to death, but I'm a firm believer in an eye for an eye. Kill and be killed. Take a life, give a life.It's not like football for me. I'm not going to watch and cheer and eat nachos.
Also, I recognize that I'm not perfect. Being imperfect, I don't have it in me to not judge. Nobody can say they don't judge. Hell, you just judged me. All but said I was going to Hell for my evil sin. To me, that's a lot worse than saying that someone should pay for their crime. You have no right to judge my soul on God's behalf. I know what's in my heart. God knows what's in my heart. You do not. So judge me for my crimes, but stay the hell away from my soul.
And yeah, I put "sex" in my title and the board comes alive. I'm like David Peckinpah!
My
Judgment
Date: 01/24/2001
From: RandomsJudgment
I've been lurking (being good) for several weeks, via a promise I made to my sweet little southern belle. That's not to say I haven't read everything you sick posters write.Informant is missing out on getting any putang, and he wants the rest of us to miss out too. Sorry dude, not a chance! I like my pussy cats in the woods, in the vale, in the hallways, on a bale, in the shower, in a car seat, in my bed (that can't be beat).
Sex is fun, and it feels very good. I love BJ parties! Bondage is especially fun, don't knock it til you try it guys. Your vigin mind needs to expand to better horizons, get laid dude!
Rape is an overused term. Women lead men on, then get upset and start crying afterwards. Regret is not rape ladies. No doesn't always mean no, it means try harder to get in my pants (or up my dress).
I, of course, would never rape a lady, even if she was my date. I also would lay claim to any bun I leave in her oven, abortion is out.
My job is having its annual conference early this year, but its in the same city as last year. I'm glad, I get to renew a sweet relationship.
My
Jubblies
Date: 01/24/2001
From: RancidJudgement
I`ve ben jerking (it feel's gud) 4 several weaks, via a promouse i made 2 my sweet little southern balls. Tha`ts not 2 say i havan't tried to read everything u sick posters rite.Informant is missing out on eatting any jello pudding, and he wants the rest of us 2 miss out 2. Sorry dude, not a chance! I like my pudding in a house, with a mouse, in a boat, with a goat, in a box, with a fox, in my bed (tha`ts were i beat).
Socks are fun, and thye feels very gud. I love NSync parties! Scat is expecially fun, do`nt knock it til u try it with guys. Yur waste line needs 2 expand 2 better horizons, eat pudding dude!
Transvesitie is an overused term. Women call me tghat, then i get upset and start cryign afterword's. Crossdressing is not wrong ladies. No does`nt always meen know, it meens I try 2 get hard in my pants (or in my dress).
I, of coarse, would never ned 2 rape a lady, specially if she was my mom. I also would lay claim 2 any bun I leave in her oven, specially if theyr sinnamun.
My job is having its anal conference early this year, but its in the same city as last year. Im glad, I get 2 renew a sweat relationship.
I've
got a simple solution.
Date: 01/24/2001
From: DimensionRider
Abortion, sexually transmitted diseases, and a troubled conscience--all could be avoided if people wait until they get married to have sex and then do so only with the person that he or she is married to.Simple solution-- Too bad only a handful of people ever listen.
DimensionRider
Original URL http://bboard.scifi.com/bboard/browse.cgi/1/5/545/24717
Nominated by DMD
