Rant Again Season 6 of Buffy(ot)

Date: 06/21/2002
From: Charmed07

Here's a really good post I found:

Many thanks to the person who posted a link to the interview with Jane E. But my gosh, if people are crediting this interview as being less arrogant than recent ones with other ME writers, then I'm awfully glad I managed to miss them -- because I found much of this painfully arrogant. Particularly her dismissal of the number of previously loyal BtVS viewers who have switched off the show in disgust this season -- first by saying that "Oh, people only talk about switching the show off; they don't really do it" and then by quipping "Besides, our boy numbers are up!"

In my own social circle, every single BtVS watcher I know *has* switched it off. I was the last hold-out, and I don't plan to watch season 7 now that the show has been reduced from a shining example of dazzling writing craft and fantasy-as-metaphor to mere fantasy-as-soap-opera. We're in that supposedly important 19-to-40 demographic. But oh, we're women viewers and men who are neither misogynistic or homophobic, so perhaps we don't count.

For five previous years I was thrilled by the extremely literary writing quality on this show, which is what attracted me to it in the first place. That plus the fact that our society so desperately needs the role models provided by strong young women with close male friends dedicated to idealistic goals, able to fight for themselves (through either physical or intellectual prowess) and to be heroic while still having full lives: family, romance, school, etc. Plus, this show celebrated Outsiders (smart, somewhat geeky kids like Willow and Xander); and showed us that *intelligence* and *idealism* can be valuable, sexy, and cool. Willow's magic, like Giles's, was a clear and beautiful metaphor for her blossoming intellectual powers, just as valuable as Buffy's physical powers -- now how rare is that in television-land?

And finally, this show was all about *friendship*. While various cast members and romantic interests came and went, the love and support between core Scoobies (Buffy, Willow, Xander, and Giles) remained a constant, even when these characters (being complex, and thus having their flaws) went in and out of various personal and supernatural crisis.

The show beautifully balanced extreme darkness (Buffy killing Angel, for instance, or the whole Faith arc) with radiant light and the razor-sharp humor of its famous Wheddon-style dialogue.

Then in Season 6 we are told that these characters, who have been fighting mature battles for 5 years, have to "oh grow up now" -- which seems to mean, in ME-land, being forced into suburban middle-aged roles worrying about mortgages and parenting, becoming entirely self-involved (remember when they used to care about saving the world? ah yes, merely idealistic youth...), and no longer acting as friends. [Unconvincing epiphany moments when they're suddenly hugging each other, apparently out of nostalgia for the fact that they *used* to be friends, is not the same thing as the day-to-day interaction and communication of real friendship.]

We're told that in Season 6, the characters have to "experience darkness and shades of grey". Excuse me, but what have they been doing for five previous years if not this? (Particularly in the gloomy season 5, where Buffy had so much stripped from her.)

The writers of BtVS used to understand fantasy metaphor, and use it brilliantly. Now they claim not to understand why viewers are upset by the messages sent out in the metaphors of Season 6: messages that are misogynistic in tone ("growing up" for smart, powerful young women means becoming a depressed loser slinging hamburgers or an evil bitch invoking satanic powers), homophobic (not only the ill-thought-out treatment of Tara's death but Andrew's sexuality played for laughs in counterpoint), insultingly silly anti-drug messages (Willow's hard-won magical prowess being reduced to a cliche-ridden addiction plot), and the overall life-inevitably-sucks-when-you-leave-high-school message. (Well, maybe it does for the Harmonys of the world, but in my experience, smart, creative, talented, dedicated, pro-active kids like the Scoobies generally find that life just begins to *open up* for them after the constraints of high school, not shut down.)

I thought we'd see a hero's journey in which the Slayer journeys back from death -- in mythic terms, journeys back from the underworld, which, in myth, generally means one comes back with new depths, new gifts, new strengths. Instead, the talented SMG is required to act lifeless and depressed for an entire season, when she's not being bitchy or sanctimonious, and ME wonders why viewers have stopped liking their heroine?

I think the thing that disturbs me most is the underlying message that what Buffy should really be concentrating on is her role as parent to Dawn. Yep, they seem to be saying, this a powerful woman's most important role: not saving the world, but being *Mom*. Will we see her barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen next, for heaven's sake? (IMO, making her Dawn's guardian and responsible for that big suburban house, when she's still barely out of her teens herself, was a big dramatic and metaphoric mistake.)

And let's not even get into the silliness of Willow's magic leading her to Satanism. Good heavens, are they telling us that Principal Snyder and M.O.O. were right all along?

But in the end, it doesn't matter to me whether I like any of the plot twists in Season 6 or not -- for even a story line that didn't personally appeal to me (such as the Dawn story line in Season 5) would have held my attention had it been delivered with the same quality of writing that the ME team has demonstrated in previous seasons. (Most noticeably in Seasons 2 & 3 -- which is no doubt why those seasons had the highest number of viewers.) Worse than the out-of-the-blue character changes this season (Willow suddenly an addictive personality? Buffy is suddenly too stupid for college?) was the fact that, episode by episode (with a very few exceptions, such as the brilliant musical), the writing was so very flat, thick with cliche, dependant on bad-Goth style melodrama and special effects. Dialogue that used to be witty, sharp, and smart and is now suddenly just bitchy -- which is simply Not The Same Thing. Characters that used to have depth are now reduced to two dimensions: Depressed Buffy! Junkie Willow! Missing in Action With No Real Good Explanation Giles!

Not to mention all the plot holes and casual departures from previous BtVS cannon. Fantasy storytelling depends on "the willing suspension of disbelief," which is achieved by keeping the invented world consistent. This seems to have gone entirely out the window, with too many examples to even begin to list here (such as: where the heck is the supposedly all-powerful Watcher's Council? Simply not important anymore because no one wants to see Quentin's naked chest?)

I came to this show for a weekly dose of beautiful writing. I'm leaving this show, deeply disappointed in the ME team, because of the embarrassing lack of good, thought-out, consistent scripting now. I can only assume that these good folks are either really, really, really burned out, or that the loss of Joss's attention has proved more dire to the show than anyone anticipated.

Glad to hear that Jane doesn't mind losing me and all the viewers I know, who were her loyal viewers for five years, since she's got those all important "boys" watching. Personally, I'd be more inclined to give Season 7 a shot if ME showed some grace, some humility, some inclination toward self-criticism, and gave me reason to believe that they understood the problems of season 6 enough to actually fix them in season 7. But since they keep insisting the Season 6 was brilliant, I can only assume that they actually prefer torrid soap opera to literary, nuanced, well-crafted fantasy. What a pity. What a waste of a talented writing staff and talented actors.

Perhaps this post better belongs in Deep Bitterness -- where I've been posting a lot lately, alas -- but it's in response to Jane's interview which was posted here.

Don't worry, guys. You won't see more long posts from me. I'm just getting this out of my system, so I can walk away from this show. My apologies to everyone for the length of my first and last post to this thread.

A reply...

Date: 06/21/2002
From: ThomasMalthus

BT hates "Buffy" with a passion!

OK, I respect the right of anybody to hate Season Six and if they don't want to give Season Seven a chance then that's their decision. But their my-way-or-the-highway attitude about the season's quality decline is very disturbing. They charge Espenson and Co. with arrogance while this person (and other S6 criticizers I've read) are very arrogant themselves. And they don't tolerate rational discussion.

First point. Tara died. It was sad. I cried. I liked Tara and I liked the Willow/Tara relationship. But it was not a homophobic killing, it was not Joss ending the relationship because he hates gays. He had the relationship on the show for two years, people. If he didn't like gays, he never would have created TV's longest-lasting gay relationship in prime time.

This show is all about friendship, yes, but all friends grow apart, have fights and don't just generally go off with each other skipping and singing 'Tra la la'. And when friends as powerful as Willow and Buffy have fights...well, let's just say there's carnage aplenty involved.

The characters are one-dimensional? Hardly. "Depressed Buffy"? Try disconnected Buffy. A Buffy so emotionally numb that having a relationship with Spike was the only way she could feel anything. A Buffy torn between her desire to return to the peaceful afterlife she knew, anger at her friends for taking her from it, guilt for abandoning everyone in the first place and for feeling the way she did about dying, who was forced to balance fighting the forces of darkness with taking care of her sister.

But this author seems to think that Buffy shouldn't take care of Dawn. That she shouldn't take responsibility for her sister? Well then who? Hank Summers obviously didn't care enough to come back for Joyce's funeral, or offer to take care of Dawn (and that's even true in Season Five). So Buffy should just turn Dawn over to protective services? Yeah, that'd be in character.

Junkie Willow? Admittedly, I didn't like "Wrecked", but her addiction to the power that magic gave her was clear even as far back as Season Four. She had gotten to the point that magic was her only option. The drug metaphor was hammered a bit too much for my taste, but I hardly think it made the season unwatchable. And Giles? Um, the actor wanted to leave the show. What was Whedon supposed to do, put a gun to Tony's head (no pun intended)? And if this author had a better suggestion for how to send Giles away from the show, I'd have liked to have heard it.

The show wanted to attract male viewers this year? How? By cutting back seriously on the 'splosions, the sword-fightin' and the blood-lettin' and doing character stories? I think not. The show's male viewership increased because it is on UPN, a traditionally male network. Also: what role was the Watcher's Council supposed to have? Where were they needed?

Frankly, I find this author's criticisms to be weak in every way. But as I say, to each his own. This author probably loved "Angel" this year with it's happy, pro-family message that it's OK to raise a kid if you're a 250-year old bloodsucker who's killed millions. And you know, it's OK if you give up that quest for redemption, it was silly anyway. And that girl you have a strong brother-sister relationship with? Make the moves on her already.

"Buffy" is about change. Whether the viewers like it or not, it matters some to ME but they get very frustrated with people's storming off and pouting about things that happen. You can imagine that each year hearing different sorts of fans airing their brassed off attitude is not very heartening.

I liked the dark tone of this season. I liked the depths that Buffy was taken to, the moral ambiguity of Spike, the fact that Xander and Willow endured major setbacks that were of their own making. Tara's death was tragic and as unnecessary as every tragic death. Still, it was part of a story arc that needed to be done to keep the Big Picture in line.

I personally can't wait for Season Seven, and I'm sorry others don't feel the same way. It's a shame.

ThomasMalthus

Umm...

Date: 06/21/2002
From: Informant

Yeah, okay, there were a few episodes this season that I didn't like, but other than that, this season was amazingly well crafted.

Did they expect Buffy to be all happy fun and cuddles after being ripped out of heaven?

Did they expect Dawn to be acting like a perfect little girl after everyone she loved kept leaving her and nobody would give her the attention that someone her age needs?

Did they expect that Willow's addiction arc, which has been building up for quite a few seasons now, would just be dropped and made all happy again in one episode?

Did they expect Xander, who has been raised by people who barely resemble humans to be able to fully give his life to another person at age 21 before he's even come to terms with himself and his issues?

Did they expect Giles to be leading them all by the hand forever?

Did they expect Buffy to suddenly get a hip new housekeeper who would take care of Dawn and pay the bills now that Joyce is gone?

They keep saying that they loved the way the characters were so complex and layered and how they were written so brilliantly before, but these characters have had issues for a long time, and this season, it all exploded in their faces.
This season needed to be dark because, incase this person couldn't tell, life can sometimes get dark and crazy. You can find yourself in holes that are hard to get out of, but when you do, you come out a better person. (hence the part in the finale with Buffy and Dawn coming out of the hole that was hard to get out of)

If they want the show to stay happy and funny forever, they should watch a sitcom. The show was a well written (most of the time) this year as it has been forever, the arcs were just way darker and harder to watch. But I much prefer that to the writers totally betraying the arcs and the characters by ignoring all of the issues that needed to arise out of everything that's happened to them.

The fact that they seriously used the word "homophobic" to describe the writing this year takes away any chance that they have of making a good point in my eyes. That is the lamest, silliest, stupidest comment I've heard people saying about this season. Anyone who says that just loses all of their points with me.

Check me out, I'm the judge guy from American Idol! Woohoo!

Some points of sympathy

Date: 06/22/2002
From: Recall317

I wouldn't say the writer of the rant is necessarily off base, even though I ultimately disagree with here. There are some good points:

1. As a writer, never disrespect your core audience with a glib "They don't really turn it off" or "Oh well, other people are watching now" Sliders third season was its most watched...and it nearly killed the show. If your core audience is walking, be very concerned. You're just 3-4 eps away from a death spiral. Talk to David Kelley. He's seen every one of his series flame out horribly.

2. This season, from my novice perception, is inferior to the five seasons preceding it. The writing is weaker. The plot development borders on non-existent in some eps. Most are bailed out by the last few minutes, and most of that is from shock value alone. Shooting Buffy creates buzz...but prior to that moment, that episode was largely forgettable.

3. S6 was a soap opera. Way too much emphasis on the Spike/Buffy relationship. And far too many eps were resolution is teased, but never accomplished. In the first 5 years, eps ended. They had true conclusions and you moved on. This was a long serial. I didn't enjoy this type of storytelling.

But I'm not walking away. There was lots of good stuff too, and even with its faults, it's still the best damn show on TV. Period.

I liked that Tara got offed. She was dragging the show down in my opinion. Tara was boring. I had no emotional attachment to her. She held Willow back from being the neat character she was before the angle began.

As for the "boys watching", I started watching seriously because of seasons 2 and 3. If I had never seen them...and had only the first few eps of S6 to go on...I wouldn't be writing this reply now.

Because I wouldn't have become a fan.

R317

I have to say...

Date: 06/22/2002
From: Slider_Sarah

I LOVED season 6! I really did! Granted, I was watching it off videos my sister taped for me in chunks because I was away ar university, and that may have changed my perception, but apart from the annoying trio, and a couple of other bits, I really enjoyed BtVS and couldn't stop watching. Honestly.

Now, I have to admit, I do like a good soap opera. I like Eastenders and Neighbours (okay, so that's not that good really :) but does that matter?

I don't know much about your systems. And here, we can't tell how many are really watching it until it comes to terrestrial which could be god knows when. And I no longer watch Angel cos I got lost and couldn't keep into it like Buffy.

And I pretty much agree with what the other repliers have said.

Sarah.
www.slidersweb.net/sarah/

Season 6 was a failure

Date: 06/22/2002
From: Stax_

A spectacular failure.

However, this article is flawed. Saying Willow's magic use supported M.O.O.'s stance is to simplify the story unfairly. And arguing that Buffy has become a one-note character is to ignore the complex motivations behind her lifelessness. The article is articulate if a little too full of " This is how I see the program " comments to be waterproof.

That Buffy fell so, so short this year was for reasons much more basic and widespread than mildly offensive homophobic " jokes " or Buffy in an ill-suited role as Dawn's parent. I'll talk about them in a moment.

>> First point. Tara died. It was sad. I cried. I liked Tara and I liked the Willow/Tara relationship. But it was not a homophobic killing, it was not Joss ending the relationship because he hates gays. He had the relationship on the show for two years, people. If he didn't like gays, he never would have created TV's longest-lasting gay relationship in prime time.

>> The fact that they seriously used the word "homophobic" to describe the writing this year takes away any chance that they have of making a good point in my eyes. That is the lamest, silliest, stupidest comment I've heard people saying about this season. Anyone who says that just loses all of their points with me.

I agree that calling the writers homophobic for killing Tara is out of bounds. But the author of this article seems to be saying that the context in which Tara was killed was what was at fault. They shouldn't have killed her after having sex. Even David Fury agrees.

>> But this author seems to think that Buffy shouldn't take care of Dawn. That she shouldn't take responsibility for her sister? Well then who? Hank Summers obviously didn't care enough to come back for Joyce's funeral, or offer to take care of Dawn (and that's even true in Season Five). So Buffy should just turn Dawn over to protective services? Yeah, that'd be in character.

The author thinks that Buffy should never have been put in this position in the first place " IMO, making her Dawn's guardian and responsible for that big suburban house, when she's still barely out of her teens herself, was a big dramatic and metaphoric mistake ". Your argument is that the only reasonable course of action AFTER that decision had been made was for Buffy to take care of Dawn. Your argument doesn't challenge his/hers .

>> Junkie Willow? Admittedly, I didn't like "Wrecked", but her addiction to the power that magic gave her was clear even as far back as Season Four.

No it wasn't. Willow wasn't addicted to magic until Wrecked. You know, the very same episode her addiction hit rock bottom. From Wrecked on magic was presented as a drug. Before that magic was the a powerful tool that was corrupting Willow's sense of judgement and morality. The reason Giles told Willow off for resurrecting Buffy was not because the magic Willow was using was bad for her but because it was an unethical use of magic. The reason Willow's memory purge of Tara was wrong was not because the magic she was using was bad for her but because it was an unethical use of magic. This storyline's apologists throw out arguments like " Willow's magic offered her a way out of uncomfortable situations just like a drug " or " Dark magic is heroine to pure magic's cough syrup ". Nice comparisons ,pity none were applicable to magic pre-Wrecked.

Also Thomas ,if memory serves me right weren't you of my mind previously? I don't say this to undermine you, I'm just curious to hear the arguments that made you change your mind.

>> This author probably loved "Angel" this year with it's happy, pro-family message that it's OK to raise a kid if you're a 250-year old bloodsucker who's killed millions.

Angel has a soul. Yes, he has the potential for evil within him as does every father.

>> And you know, it's OK if you give up that quest for redemption, it was silly anyway.

First off, Angel hasn't been on a quest for redemption since Epiphany, arguably To Shansu in LA. I'll presume you mean The Mission . If you do, when did he abandon it? True, there has been less stories this year focussed on helping the helpless but Angel has never been one to go out onto the street patrolling for evil to vanquish. And has he ever turned away someone coming to him for help?

>> And that girl you have a strong brother-sister relationship with? Make the moves on her already.

I'll give you that.

>> Yeah, okay, there were a few episodes this season that I didn't like, but other than that, this season was amazingly well crafted

Couldn't disagree more. In fact that Buffy was so shoddily crafted was Season 6's big problem. Thematically complex and potential laden ideas, bog standard execution . Great ideas hampered by:

Flat dialogue: Villains is the main offender her. It was a good episode that was half of what it should have been. The characters spouted so many platitudes that when something insightful finally came along like Xander's blood on his hands line it becomes remarkable.

Badly structured episodes: The writers seem to presume that because they're taking the " chapter in a book " approach to episodic storytelling they can fill the episodes with bloated scenes, only remarkable for how long it took for so little to be said. For example, the first 40 minutes of Seeing Red.

The drawing together of threads : Maybe it's me but I was expecting Dawn's kleptomania to go somewhere. If Buffy was a finely crafted piece of television, the character threads would have intersected and influenced each other, maybe coming together in a way they did on, dare I say it, Angel.
Seemed like Dawn's kleptomania and to a lesser extent Xander's wedding nerves were easy ways of keeping the characters occupied.

Stinkin' red herring : Seemed to me that Willow's addiction (which failed 'cause of being complete incongruent with the set-up) was there to convince us that Willow's magic storyline had peaked at Wrecked, so we wouldn't see Dark Willow acomin'. Either that or buy for time .Whichever way it was the single worst thing about this season.

The people I know who watch Buffy, don't anymore. Maybe one does. That's because the writers of Buffy decided that in Season 6 they were going to make their Big Artistic Statement and providing the audience with pleasure or enjoyment didn't factor. I love despair and misery . I love watching characters making their own messes . But because the execution was SO off these very literary ideas were smothered. And along with them were the audience.

>> But I'm not walking away. There was lots of good stuff too, and even with its faults, it's still the best damn show on TV. Period.

Nah, The Sopranoes, Angel then Buffy.stax

I meant network TV :)

Date: 06/22/2002
From: Recall317

I don't get HBO or those fancy "movie" channels.

I'm in the stax_ camp. Piss-poor execution and endless filler were staples of S6. I felt you could have folded quite a few episodes into a solo act and leave the rest on the cutting room floor.

On Dawn's kleptomania: seemed like it was introduced solely to serve "Once More with Feeling." They needed something to get that talisman on Dawn to swerve us away from the actual culprit...the unwitting Xander.

Speaking of Xander...where was he this season? While I cheered that he got to be the final hero this season, he was absent all season long and his interaction with Willow--supposedly his best friend--was very limited. I know Xander is Joss's character, but Marti, Jane and David need to embrace this guy and USE him. He's a solid 1/3rd of the fan base.

And yet despite all the above flaws, still superior to everything else on network television that I saw. "The West Wing" was solid, but it didn't leave me breathless. "Law&Order" (the original) remains consistent. "Smallville" impressed me, but not enough to make me remember when it was on. Poor "Gilmour Girls" got zero viewership from me as it's against Buffy. And since I'm usually recording Buffy because I'm not home, I got no chance to see it.

I think S7 will be great as I anticipate more Whedon in the planning stages. He may not have been absent this year, but he was letting others take the helm. I don't think he'll make that mistake again.

R317

Reply...

Date: 06/22/2002
From: Informant

I really disagree, but honestly, I've been going through these same conversations so many times that it's getting to be like "Where's JOC" for me. I am thinking of writing up the entire Willow arc from the start (as far back as season 2) to this last season. Maybe then people will see it more.

If you didn't like this year, maybe you should read this. I hear it makes people feel better a little...

http://www.slipstreambbs.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/002657.html

I don't get HBO either.

Date: 06/24/2002
From: Stax_

I'm Irish. RTE, the national broadcaster airs The Sopranos.

Recall, for your own sake, watch Angel.

Informant, I can see why a lighter season might appeal to some fans but I'm not so much concerned with the show's tone as I am with its quality of storytelling. I'll just have to see the episodes.stax

Yeah...

Date: 06/25/2002
From: Informant

And I really think that, aside from a few episodes ("Smashed", "Older And Farther Away" and "Hells Bells" to be exact) the quality of the show has been kept up pretty well.
The stories that were told are the stories that had to be told because everything that's happened in the past few seasons has been festering and it just finally exploded. The characters weren't on the top of their game, but it fit with the stories being told.

Hey, at least we still have "Angel"...

Date: 06/27/2002
From: Slider8_

...which, in my humble opinion has been as good as Buffy in it's prime (S2 & S3) since almost the beginning of the show.

The problem with Season Six, is that the characters really weren't that interesting, IMO. I mean, I never thought that I would be jonesing for the episode where Riley came back!

-Willow's addiction storyline made me dislike Willow, which is pretty much like blasphemy.

-Xander hardly got any screen time, and when he did, his dialogue sucked. I WANT FUNNY XANDER BACK!

-Anya's sex jokes got old a season ago, they REALLY need to get rid of her.

-Giles...gone?!?!?! <---- My number one answer to why the season was sub-par.

-Buffy's whining got damn annoying, and I got sick of the heaven story really quick.

-Dawn...do I even have to explain?

Now, for the good character developments:

-Spike and Tara. Up until Season Six, I had been a strong hater of Tara (due to my strong loyalty to Willow/Oz), but they really brought new life into her character this year. As for Spike, it was good to finally see that he is NOT a good guy, no matter what. Also, the nerds. I know many people hated them, but I thought they were great. Hell, if we didn't have the trio, the season would have induced mass suicides among the depressed. Plus, Jonathon has always been great.

Now, I'm not saying the season was horrible...overall, the storylines were better than Season Four, but S4 had better episodes. We did have such gems as "Once More, With Feeling" and "Tabula Rasa", but otherwise, it has been my least favorite Buffy season. I am looking forward to S7, even though I find the "new direction" that they are taking Spike is just extremely retarded.

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