OBSESSION was too off-format

Date: 4/29/99
From: Executive

It had it's heart in the right place, but the episode was so bad in 1996 I vowed to myself to never see it again. But with nothing else on to watch last night, I did catch just a few minutes of it. Fortunately I was soon interrupted by a phone call. ;-)

Anyway, the idea of pairing Wade with another man, since Quinn obviously wasn't interested in her romantically was a good idea. But for this creep to use his psychic powers and enter her dreams --- and still be able control her even after she slides to the next world, was really stretching the format. If the man was just the average psycho killer it would have been more realistic. This is SLIDERS, not Poltergeist: The Legacy.

Back in the 1970s singer turned actor Issac Hayes was great as an ex-con who hired former cellmate Jim Rockford (whom he called "Rockfish") in a few episodes of THE ROCKFORD FILES. As The Prime Oracle he had very little to do, in spite of the importance of that guest role.

"Obsession" was a 2nd season foreshadowing of what was to come in the 3rd. Wade was also in much greater jeopardy and even near death from a drug that was forced into her system in "The Dream Masters", a failed episode that soon came after "Desert Storm" -- a story which revived the absurd psychic angle when Wade briefly has a psychic experience. I never bought the witch doctor's claim in that episode that he was able to instantly cure Arturo of his illness (and neither did Arturo). Late in the season, when horror became a regular theme, Wade was controlled by a vampire.

T h e
E x e c u t i v e

One thought about mind control...

Date: 4/29/99
From: QBall79

The Season Four Kromaggs can do it, so why not alternate humans? Sorry, but I liked this episode.

Q-Ball79
http://listen.to/cleavant
THE C.D. CD IS COMING!!!

I've always been curious...

Date: 4/29/99
From: TemporalFlux

What is on format and who divided it up?

Tf
temporalflux@hotmail.com
http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Studio/8120

Damn it, Executive

Date: 4/29/99
From: SpaceTime

So it comes to the point where you voice your opinion and you're wrong. What to do, what to do...

First of all, why are you commenting on an episode you SWORE you'd never watch again after it aired on FOX and then only caught a few moments of last night? Unless you have a photographic memory, you should have just let it slide.

And you don't have a photographic memory. Your "review" speaks for itself. Derek Bond didn't control Wade with his psychic powers! At most, he read her thoughts and recreated her childhood room. He also had knowledge of a past life (which, while hokey, is something people yap about all the time here). And controlling her after she slides to the next world?! Did you pull this information directly out of your ass?! Geez... all Bond said at the end was "I just saw where they're going," a reference to a slide that's going to be pretty shitty.

And as for deviating from format, let's see: the world was explained, Arturo remained skeptical, Quinn was a jealous skeptic that freaked out when Wade "died" (a nod to all the people out there who think these two characters were destined for each other), Rembrandt got laid... where does this deviate from the "formula"? The only formula it deviates is the third season formula for total crap.

One last thing to point out where your episode review utterly falls apart. Desert Storm aired AFTER Dream Masters. And despite what people say about the whole psychic thing (I think it's bunk, too), every possible thing that can happen does happen in a parallel universe. The waveform function of quantum physics predicts it. So Wade hearing Devin in DS is improbable but not impossible. And Arturo's illness? It was address in "Last of Eden."

> Back in the 1970s singer turned actor Issac Hayes was great as
> an ex-con who hired former cellmate Jim Rockford (whom he called
>"Rockfish") in a few episodes of THE ROCKFORD FILES. As The Prime
> Oracle he had very little to do, in spite of the importance of
> that guest role.

Nobody cares about your review padding... and I thought Isaac Hayes was more well-known for his score for "Shaft," which won him an Oscar, or his current role as Chef on "South Park."

Next time you write a review of complete bullshit, do us a favor and post it to the Netforum where it will never be read.

SpaceTime

SpaceTime, what's your problem?

Date: 4/29/99
From: Executive

You really are on fire today! First of all, I was offering commentary from "Obsession" not a review of it. Second, if you don't like my references from other TV shows --- tough shit!!! Don't read my posts, and your problem is solved. I'd expect this from one other person here but not you.

As for referring to Wade being psychically controlled by Derek, I didn't specify to what extent but I remember the episode well enough to know that he endangered Wade so I limited my comments. I suggest you get your head out of your ass.

My opinions are always honest and mostly accurate and I will express them in any way, shape, or form that I choose. I don't get this kind of hostility on other boards I use and expect from a few troubled individuals on this board I usually don't get it here either so GROW UP.

Good question, Qball79

Date: 4/29/99
From: Executive

I've come to accept the Kromaggs since they become an ongoing threat in the 4th season. It's just that they are not human, and Derek is so the mind control that Derek had didn't work for me. That world worshipped the occult, but if it had been written in a different way I believe the story would have worked more effectively without the "hocus-pocus" if you know what I mean. ;-)

Date: 4/30/99
From: LShel

Exec, I'm not sure what "off format" means, but I really liked this episode. In fact, I'd say it's one of my favorites of the ones I've seen (see my reply to post 5336).

I wasn't really clear on how much control Derrick had on Wade's dream sequences vs. just being aware of them. Pretty amazing that he could be aware of them even before she entered his world, huh? Even so, why didn't he learn anything from her premature death in her dream? If he did have some control over her dreams, maybe the primary oracle did as well. Were they both imposing themselves in her dream sequences? Regardless, I definitely thought Wade did a very good job of standing her ground w/ Derrick & "teaching him a lesson" about how to not to use his powers of extrasensory perception. It seems that the primary oracle had more impact on the series of events than Derrick did.

One of things I liked about this ep was chemistry between Wade & Derrick. With all due respect, I didn't think Derrick was so much a creep as he was just immature & presumptuous. Also, how would having him be a psycho killer be more realistic? I thought Derrick genuinely cared for Wade and adored her (he had more history w/ her than vice versa due to his supposed knowledge of "past lives" together), but unfortunately he was presumptuous, insensitive, & undisciplined about how to use his powers respectfully. He had lessons to learn as the primary oracle predicted. Alas, if only they had more time on his world, maybe Wade would have forgiven him & resumed their romance. I wouldn't mind seeing them hook up again on another world. (OK, Quinn/Wade romantics, pls don't shoot me.)

Wade's near death experience in this episode, self-imposed like in Romeo & Juliet, was a very creative plan of escape. The suspense in this episode was great.

LShel :)

Date: 4/30/99
From: SpaceTime

You have the nerve to say that your posts are always honest and usually correct, yet the only thing that even has one shred of truth in your post is that Issac Hayes was in the Rockford Files, and since I don't know anything about the show I'll let that comment stand. It still doesn't fit in with your post at all, but that's the least of my worries...

Everything about your originating message (sans previously stated stuff in this post) is wrong and I know it because I watched the whole thing and have watched it many, MANY times. I know that Derek Bond doesn't have the ability to manipulate minds, on that world or the next. And your third season comments were wrong, too.

This isn't a personal vendetta, Executive. I called Tf on it when he made his gaffe over a year ago (something you manage to bring up every time you need to pounce on his credibility). It's simply this: WRONG INFORMATION IS NOT WELCOME OR NECESSARY. You admitted that you thought little of the episode when it first aired THREE YEARS AGO and only caught a few minutes of it this time around before your fortunately timed phone call. And yet you attack ME when I know for a fact that your information is BULLSHIT and that if you stopped and watched the episode again you'd realize it?!

It may have been an opinion post, but like Tf, if his opinion is based on a bunch of horseshit that has no bearing in this reality, it's not much of an opinion. I'd think that after the huge flame wars that just ended you'd throw a little more research into your message since people will be scrutinizing you over the smallest mistakes.

SpaceTime

Date: 4/30/99
From: Executive

Since I don't this to get any worse than you've already made it to be, I will be brief. I responded to your attack on me in the previous reply in the same manner that you initiated it in the first place. If you're going to dish it out, be prepared to take it the same way.

None of my info was wrong, except perhaps for the original order of "Desert Storm" and "The Dream Masters" which is totally irrelevant anyway because they both came AFTER "Obsession" which is the point. Wade's brief psychic experience in Desert Storm was not the main plot but it DID happen. She was under the influence of a vampire in "Stoker". To a point Derek controlled her, and to add my OPINION he didn't really love her to begin with. How are these statements wrong?

Having seen the episode "Obsession" in its entirety ONCE even if it was 3 years ago was enough to state what I did, and to compare it to what happened in the later episodes that I cited. Call it horror or fantasy, but it was not a typical SLIDERS. Your attack was as groundless as it was vicious. Just because you liked the story, doesn't mean I have to agree with you.

Date: 4/30/99
From: SpaceTime

Why can't you just admit you were wrong instead of backpedaling?

To begin, I'm unconcerned with the tone of your response. That's not important. What *is* important is that you had a grip of misleading information and when I called you on it, you maintained (and still maintain) that your information is correct. I know it is not, and anyone who has even a passing familiarity with the episode will know that you are wrong. I don't feel I need to bring your points up again for the THIRD time, so I won't. What I will do is give a blow by blow rebuttal to your latest post:

> If you're going to dish it out, be prepared to take it the same
> way.

I never said I couldn't take it, so don't insinuate that I have a soft skin.

> None of my info was wrong, except perhaps for the original
> order of "Desert Storm" and "The Dream Masters" which is
> totally irrelevant anyway because they both came AFTER
> "Obsession" which is the point.

All of your information was wrong. Don't believe me folks? Check my last two posts in this topic. As for Desert Storm following Dream Masters, I'll concede that it's off-topic, but you brought it up to begin with. And as you agree that you were wrong and concede it, it's a dead issue.

> To a point Derek controlled her, and to add my OPINION he
> didn't really love her to begin with. How are these statements
> wrong?

Your statements are wrong because your opinion of the episode is flawed. The title is "Obsession." Why? Because Derek Bond has a fanatical obsession with Wade that reaches back to another life! And how can you say that he doesn't love her?! The whole point of the episode was that he loved her so much that he didn't give a flying fuck about whether or not she loved him back. He wanted his past life returned to him, and as was said earlier in this topic, Derek's attitude was selfish and juvenile, not hating. But why am I even discussing this with you, Exec? You hate this episode, I like it a lot, and that's why I chose to watch it again. That's also why I know what the hell went on and you don't.

> Having seen the episode "Obsession" in its entirety ONCE even if
> it was 3 years ago was enough to state what I did, and to compare
> it to what happened in the later episodes that I cited. Call
> it horror or fantasy, but it was not a typical SLIDERS. Your
> attack was as groundless as it was vicious. Just because you
> liked the story, doesn't mean I have to agree with you.

But you're wrong. Again. Seeing the episode in 1996 and trying to recall it three years later AND SCREWING IT UP TO THE POINT WHERE YOU HAVE CHANGED THE VERY NATURE OF THE STORY is counterproductive to the discourse of this forum. You were wrong! Just say you were wrong and move on with life! I don't call "Obsession" horror OR fantasy. I call it a good character piece for Sliders that is a strong Wade story and has the elements of a good episode. My "attack" was not vicious but justified. Just because you act like an ill-informed idiot doesn't mean you get to get away with it.

SpaceTime

Date: 5/1/99
From: Executive

You know damn well I said nothing inaccurate. If I did then others would have stepped in to agree with you by now. The bottom line is you are attacking my OPINIONS and accusing my personal interpretation of why I didn't like the episode as wrong. Three or not makes no difference in this case, because I didn't go into detail. Would you did wasn't the same thing as disputing the facts. And if you didn't insult me in the first place (as TF has often done in the past) than this shouting match and name-calling between us never would have transpired. End of story...

Date: 5/1/99
From: Executive

.

Date: 5/1/99
From: SpaceTime

You are an obstinate fool. For someone in his mid-30s, I'd think you'd have enough humbling life lessons to simply admit when you were wrong and move on. I guess not.

> You know damn well I said nothing inaccurate.

Do you read a word I post? No? Then let me bring it up AGAIN so I can attack your statements blow by blow.

> Anyway, the idea of pairing Wade with another man, since
> Quinn obviously wasn't interested in her romantically was
> a good idea.

Anyone who saw the episode saw the layers of jealousy Quinn had over Wade and Derek Bond. It was painfully apparent. And even though I've never been a proponent of a Quinn/Wade relationship, the second season has had its moments where the nature of their relationship is explained. Quinn's very unsubtle mannerisms and acting around Wade's infatuation with Derek showed a deal of concern and to a further extent love for his friend.

> But for this creep to use his psychic powers and enter her
> dreams --- and still be able control her even after she
> slides to the next world, was really stretching the format.

Okay. This never happened. I don't care what you say. Derek Bond did not use his psychic poweres to control her. And he didn't enter her dreams. He sent her a vision of her past life. Totally non-invasive, which contrasts with "The Dream Masters."

> If the man was just the average psycho killer it would have
> been more realistic. This is SLIDERS, not Poltergeist: The
> Legacy.

You missed the whole point of the show. Or maybe you didn't, since you haven't seen it IN THREE YEARS. Again, Bond wasn't out to kill Wade! He loved her and his obsession to keep her by his side poisoned his objectivity. The parallel between the past life and present life was drawn in the episode, but then, you wouldn't possibly remember that, would you?

> "Obsession" was a 2nd season foreshadowing of what was to
> come in the 3rd. Wade was also in much greater jeopardy and
> even near death from a drug that was forced into her system
> in "The Dream Masters", a failed episode that soon came after
> "Desert Storm" -- a story which revived the absurd psychic
> angle when Wade briefly has a psychic experience. I never
> bought the witch doctor's claim in that episode that he was
> able to instantly cure Arturo of his illness (and neither
> did Arturo). Late in the season, when horror became a regular
> theme, Wade was controlled by a vampire.

"Obsession" is nothing like a 3rd season episode. It has intense character exposition, a detailed history of the earth they slid onto, Quinn and Arturo's skepticism about the whole political process regarding psychics, Quinn's repressed attraction to Wade, Rembrandt getting some. It's got great lines and is very watchable.

And since I just re-read your post, the witch doctor from "Desert Storm" never claimed that he had healed Arturo. He said that Arturo must look beyond sciences and look within himself and heal himself. Basically a mind over matter thing. And I've seen that work. Perception is a powerful tool.

And now back to your latest post:

> If I did then others would have stepped in to agree with
> you by now.

LShel corrected you as well, but your logic is flawed. You're assuming the conclusion. Do you think people care enough about our fight to step in and lend support either way? Someone else telling me I'm right isn't going to make my argument any more correct because IT IS CORRECT. I watch the episode fairly often. You do not. You are not allowed to cast insight on said episode since you have none to offer.

> The bottom line is you are attacking my OPINIONS and accusing
> my personal interpretation of why I didn't like the episode
> as wrong.

Funny, you didn't seem to mind too much when I did the exact same thing to TF when he had that BS thesis concerning Peckinpah. If your opinion had correct facts to back it up then I wouldn't care. But you are spreading misinformation and that's not right.

Here's where you slide into complete gibberish:
> Three or not makes no difference in this case, because I
> didn't go into detail. Would you did wasn't the same thing
> as disputing the facts. And if you didn't insult me in the
> first place (as TF has often done in the past) than this
> shouting match and name-calling between us never would have
> transpired. End of story...

Way to bring TF into the argument needlessly. I'll insult you if it merits it. It definitely merited. And while I stayed far, far away from your recent battle with the Flux-man, I've independently come to the conclusion that you are a first-rate tool. You really don't bring anything to the board except misinformation and chaos. And while chaos is necessary in life, it isn't on a bulletin board. Take a hike and come back when you have something productive to add to the Sliders community.

SpaceTime
http://www.earthprime.com

Date: 5/2/99
From: Executive

If I was as stubborn as you say, than why do you persist on replying each time if you want this to end? I don't deny that you've seen the episode more than I have, but I'm not responsible for your totally misintrepreting almost everything I've stated. You created the chaos -- I merely responded to it in the same manner (only more briefly and to the point). I think we've both taken this too far!!

By the way, I'm not in my mid 30s I am 30. Get your facts straight, man! ;-)

Date: 5/2/99
From: SpaceTime

I never said I wanted to end this debate, but it ends here. I've said my piece and I've said it many, many times in this topic. The next time I attack you is very obvious: when you make incorrect assumptions based on a lack of episodic knowledge, I'll call you on it and hammer it into your skull until that dim little gray matter you call a brain finally understands that it's okay to admit when you're wrong instead of acting like an obstinate fool.

If you want to participate, know what the hell it is you're talking about first.

SpaceTime
http://www.earthprime.com

Date: 10/6/99
From: Blinker

.

Date: 1/26/2000
From: Blinker

1

Date: 5/11/2000
From: QBall79

How did I miss that before?!

Q-Ball79
http://www.slidersweb.net/

Original URL http://www.scifi.com/bboard/browse.cgi/1/5/545/6004
Nominated by SpaceTime