Season Five Retrospective

Date: 06/16/2003
From: Grizzlor

Season 5 was probably the most misunderstood and puzzling season. At times the chemistry of the cast, and science fiction of the plot got close to the Torme years, and at other times it was a nightmare of Frankensteined scripts and cheap short cuts. And since this is the first time in eons that Scifi aired the whole season in order consecutively, here we go...

Characters/actors first....

Rembrant (Cleavant): easily his best year since Torme times. Got to sing in Java Jive, got to be Shaft in A Thousand Deaths. Remmy was courageous, heroic, funny, quick witted, and often was guy who fought the loonies over what is right and wrong. Plus, there was almost no mention of the Navy or that ridiculous over the top S4 Remmy who wanted to fight everybody, and lots of anecdotes of sliders history and Spinning Tops trivia! Superb effort.

Maggie (Kari): Her best season, but is that saying much? They went with a more conservative, straight laced Kari. Ok choice. Maggie became the choice for the writers to express any kind of empathy to guest stars, or the occasional "oh yeah, don't forget we have to save Colin and Quinn!" Although her "Forget Wade she's dead quip from Requiem was typical. And they put Maggie too often in solo scenes with guest stars that just were bad (great work, please press one, current affair, return of Beckett, etc.) A positive (yes I do have one for Kari) is that she was very good at applying sarcasm, unlike the pathetic job Jerry did in Season 4 with Melancholy Quinn. She also provided some of the few love interests during the season, in Heavy Metal. Kari annoying factor was down, which I guess is good.

Diana Davis (Tembi Locke): I really liked Diana, it was a really stout effort by Tembi. She brought in a good mix of brains and even humor. I appreciated that the writers used her to explain the scientific aspects of each episode, ala Arturo, and not just make something up like Quinn. I also liked how she would react so naively to things, and provide a dose of humor. She really came across as a complete character, and provided the best mix of character of all.

Mallory (Robert Floyd): Maybe it's just me, but this guy was just absurd. He acts like a dufus, then suddenly knows about brain architecture, while hooking up with a transvestite or biker, making bad jokes, whining that he's not Quinn, insisting he's a Vigilante (come on!), and getting beat up. I may take some heat on this, but his moments in the sun in Easy slider and New gods for Old were just bad. Maybe it's just the way Floyd acts, but Mallory was pointless, they should have just made him a Quinn double without the merging, which made the situation doubly stupid. Positive? Well, he was probably the most lively and energetic character in the show's history.

Plot arcs, guest stars, lost characters, and finales....

Here's where the season suffered. Guest stars are easy, they weren't very good.

Dr. Geiger Peter Jurasik: I hope Jurasik fans don't read this, but he was aside from Dickson/Daltry, the worst recurring guest star of Sliders. Why was he so bad? I don't know. He tried to be cunning, scary and evil, and wound being a big old loser. I really couldnt stand Geiger. End of story.

Another Babylon 5 alum, Jerry Doyle, put in a much better job in Strangers and Comrades. of the other few good jobs, were the General Beckett guy in Return of Maggie,Paxton in Heavy Metal, and the guy in To catch a slider.

Returning Sliders guest stars performed, uhh, not good. whether their faults or the writers, it was bad.
*Stephen Macht in New Gods (S4 Kromagg) was ok as the scientist doctor, but still failed to be very convincing.
*Sabrina Lloyd in Requiem (Wade) I dont even want to get into this one, you all know the drill.
*Ken Jenkins in Dust (S4 Revelations) was just ridiculously bad.
*Jay Acovone in Eye of the Storm (S3 Soul Survivors) Need I even bother?
*Roy Dottrice and Jennifer Hetrick in The Seer (S4 Data World and S1 Last Days) Oh boy I really dont need to get into those two!

Plot arcs and lost characters, are one in the same, and both were disapointing. Merging Quinn and Mallory was just a stupid idea. Appeasing Robert Floyd by ignoring it entirely post Applied Physics, even worse.

Requiem was dispicable. They should have gotten Sabrina in person for the few scenes they needed. horrible. putting wade in a jar with her head cut open was outrageous and insulting. Michael Reeves did not write it that way and Damron and whoever did that can kiss my ass!@

Thankfully they didnt deal with the Kromaggs, and shut up about the Quinn homeworld.

Eye of the storm was another work of the invalids, directed by Peck (shocker). Again, rather than to settle the issue by this....The ray gun successfully separates them, says Diana, Mallory is there, but where is quinn? Simple, like colin he is unstuck or something. Makes a lot more sense, instead of another pointless un-resolution.

The Seer, I gotta say I hate the Cliffhanger idea. Why? because it was a cliffhanger? No no! It was because as Damron admitted, they were supposed to have a big effects blow out finale. But no, Bill dial was a dick. inside we got a stupid finale that finalized nothing.

Hope you can read all this, it may be too long. Look forward to any thoughts from the Masses!

Grizz

Thanks for the review!

Date: 06/16/2003
From: Firehawke

Very informative. I only watched part of season 5 this airing, picking up where SciFi left off last time when it switched to early morning time. Can't wait until it's back on!

-Firehawke :)

I liked your review.

Date: 06/16/2003
From: AlphaNova

I agree with a lot of your points. I always felt, and still do, that the whole purpose of season five was to get eighteen more episodes out of the show for a shot at syndication. I don't think Dial, Damron, or anyone particularly cared much about what they were doing. That's why storylines were abruptly dropped, and resolutions to long standing plot lines were wraped up in a rushed manner (the Quinn/Mallory Merging, Quinn's mom a prisoner of the Kromaggs, Wade captured by the Kromaggs, the search for Quinn's "homeworld", Colin being unstuck, and Rembrandt finding a way to free his "homeworld" from the Magg). They blew everything off one right after the other.

Grizzlor, you suggested one idea that I think would have really worked: unmerging Quinn and Mallory, but with the unexpected side-effect of Quinn also being unstuck. It would have accomplished a couple of things: 1) Closure to the merging storyline; 2) Leaving the door open to Jerry/Quinn making guest appearances (if the show had continued), 3) giving a reasonable explanation why they won't find any more Quinn alternates/doubles (of Jerry) on worlds they visit anymore and (4) leaving Floyd to develop his character without the shadow of O'Connell. Too bad the writers couldn't realize this.

when did Q-Ball become unstuck?

Date: 06/16/2003
From: Slidemania

I thought that in "Eye of the Storm" Diana said that they could only save either Quinn or Mallory (and she implied that the other one would become permanently dormant), and they chose to save Mallory because according to Rembrandt, Quinn wouldn't have wanted them to sacrifice another person to save him.

When did they say anything about Quinn being permanently unstuck?

He didn't.

Date: 06/17/2003
From: AlphaNova

Quinn being unstuck was just a suggestion Grizzlor made which would have been a better ending than what they came up with in "The Eye of the Storm". At least there would have been closure to the merging storyline if they had done it that way.

Sorry for any confusion.

I wouldn't say they didn't care

Date: 06/17/2003
From: Recall317

I think Damron cared. I think Black cared. Even Dial had to care otherwise he wouldn't have retaliated against Sci-Fi with The Seer. The problem isn't lack of caring, it's lack of ability.

To pull off a big 5th season given the circumstances, it would have taken a highly skilled team with considerable resources. Instead we had a marginally skilled team with no resources. I don't know what the budget for these eps were, but it had to be dwarved by the budgets Farscape and SG-1 have. Half the time it looked like they could barely afford film. You can have all the great ideas in the world, but it's hard to show them in all their glory on a shoestring budget. Case in point: Eye of the Storm. The teaser was pathetically lame cause they couldn't afford to do it as written. Of course, nothing prevented them from using a less lame teaser, and that's where the lack of ability comes in.

Damron was in over his head. He was not ready to hold so high a slot. Whereas previous Story Editors probably had some input, Damron was part of a triumvate (or so his journals would lead me to believe) and he just wasn't game.
Black and Dial weren't all that hands-on either, and Peckinpah, well, there isn't much evidence he even showed off half the time.

Once they got past the first three episodes, it became painfully clear they were writing on the fly. The other seasons weren't under that crunch. They'd write 5 or 6 scripts, and then start production on the first one. This gives you time to develop arcs, change things that aren't working, drop clues or build set-ups for later. S5 was dropped from the top of a roller coaster and it was all they could do to get an episode out before the car hit the bottom. Then they'd climb another hill and do it all over again. This deprived them of setting up meaningful arcs and consistency of character.

For starters, with two brand new sliders, you can essentially start over and explore all kinds of things that haven't been done since the first season. They did this for two episodes- Applied Physics and Strangers and Comrades. That's too bad. They made the same mistake they made with Colin and just made him a battle-tested member of the group. Well, that's not realistic, especially when you have someone as neurotic as Diana. She could have borken down on them almost immediately (and maybe made Map of the Mind redeemable.)

And off all seasons, why is this one the most buddy-buddy? Rembrandt and Maggie have good cause to be extremely unfriendly to both Mallory (who is in the way of Quinn) and Diana (who's partiall responsible.) Instead, they're all best friends. "New Gods for Old" would have been a wonderful opprotunity to put Mallory at loggerheads with either Remmy or Maggie and have it out. They passed. Furthermore, Mallory has good cause to be even more resentful than he is. They don't want him; he doesn't want to be here. That just sort of fades away. And why, oh why, can't any of them remember why they're sliding in the first place? In Dust, Mallory is the only one with a semblance of a brain, reminding the others it might not be worth dying for a human popsicle, considering how many other lives depended on them.

Basically, this group was dumb. Really, really dumb. Good thing their opponents this season were equally dumb. Bad decision making plagued this group. Consequence of not having Quinn or Arturo? Possibly. Consequence of writer incapable of understanding the consequences of own script? More likely.

And yet, it's still not too bad a season. I liked it despite its flaws and occassional really crappy episode (Great Work, Please Press One, Map of the Mind, Requiem). I guess it might be because I had no expectations of it being any good. Season 4 pretty much killed that dream (although in aggregate, S4 is better than S5.) So I was pleased with whatever I could get and there was some decent stuff in here. By season's end, I liked Mallory and Diana and wanted to see more of them. No chance of that though.

R317

My comments...

Date: 06/17/2003
From: Slider_Quinn21

I think that season 5 is very underrated. But, on the other hand, it is also very OVERRATED.

I look at season 5 the same way I look at season 3. I can look at an episode like "The Guardian" or "Dead Man Sliding". And I can say, "Hey, those are incredible episodes."

Then, I look at the last half and I don't even want to think about it.

Its the same with Season 5. There are some great episodes like "Applid Physics." And then there are episodes like "Dust" which I just realized I STILL haven't seen yet (lack of interest, and this time around, just forgetting it existed).

I'll go ahead and say that I am one of those people who came into Season 5 biased. I couldn't believe that they were going to try to do a season without Quinn. Like I said in an older post, who would've thought that REMBRANDT would've been the last original castmember?

And as much sense as that makes now (Rembrandt was the one forced into this situation, and he's the everyman), I always saw Sliders as Quinn's story.

Just the opening monologue would upset me. I know Cleavant tried, and he did a pretty good job, but that was Quinn's monologue. It just felt weird from anyone else.

But I see a lot of effort I didn't see from season 4. And I did like that.

As for my comments...

Rembrandt- I agree with Grizzlor. This was a great year for Cleavant and Rembrandt. I think he did a great job reaching back to S1 Rembrandt, asking himself what would've happened if that man had his whole life stripped from him.

Maggie- I'm definitely someone who prefers S5 Maggie over S3 Maggie. But I'm also someone who says, "Why is Maggie like that?"

I mean, we all hated S3 Maggie, but why did she change? Did Quinn's act in "This Slide of Paradise" soften her? Or their "honeymoon" afterwards?

Because that's when the change started. You see a little of S3 Maggie in S4 Maggie. And even less in S5 Maggie.

But S3 Maggie was so angry and raw, and I just don't see the change realistic (which, ironically, is a good thing).

Diana- I really like the character of Diana. I think she's my favorite add-on character by far, but I'm not sure why. She really didn't get a chance to do anything or even broaden her character.

But I saw potential in her. I think she and Arturo would've gotten along perfectly. I see them trying to make Diana a female Quinn or Arturo. I have little or no proof of that, but that's what I saw.

Mallory- I HATE Mallory. Hate Hate Hate. I don't have any problem saying that. I agree with you, Grizzlor, and I agree with Recall. They had a great chance to have conflict INSIDE the group for the first time since S3 Maggie (which was handled very poorly). And they failed...

I don't know why Floyd didn't just play Quinn.

Griz, you mentioned that the producers appeased Floyd. What do you mean? He asked to stay away from the Quinn storyline? AND THEY AGREED?

Where'd you read that?

I think the season would've been much stronger if he was playing Quinn. Because that feeling of "weirdness" would've gone away.

Don't get me wrong. I felt weird about S5 because Quinn wasn't there. Not Jerry.

Screw Jerry. I wanted to see more of Quinn.

This could've been a great opportunity to get Quinn back to his roots. And they blew it.

I also agree about Requiem. That was just horrible. If they couldn't get Sabrina, they should've just scrapped the idea. Because it didn't do anything in its current form.

We still don't KNOW anything more than we knew in "Genesis." We knew Wade was at a breeding camp, but little else.

We now know that Wade sacrificed herself, but we also have her mysterious line at the end of "Requiem".

And what good was her sacrifice? Why didn't Wade send Rembrandt home?!?!

If the Kromaggs really control Earth Prime, she has the coordinates. She probably could've sent a manta ship or two home with him as weapons.

But they didn't even touch on that (and if I did, it was handled poorly because I don't remember it)

All in all, season 5 was a good effort, but a very sloppy effort. It was good but bad. It answered some questions and added completely new ones.

And I liked it, but I also hated it...

Quinn
http://slidersweb.net/otherworlds/214

Slider_Quinn21

Date: 06/17/2003
From: AlphaNova

I agree with you about Floyd playing Quinn. After seeing what really happened, it couldn't have been any worse than recasting Floyd as Quinn. At least they could have continued on the storyline about the Kromagg homeworld and had a shot at discovering that the earth the Kromaggs invaded wasn't EarthPrime.

My Season 5 review

Date: 06/17/2003
From: The_Seer

BT had no Season 5.

Overall -

I would rank Season 5 third behind Season 1 and Season 2. Season 3 and 4 each have a few episodes that beat anything from Season 5 but overall there were more good episodes in Season 5 than either Season 3 or 4. Personal favorites were "The Unstuck Man", "Applied Physics", "The Return of Maggie Beckett" and "To Catch A Slider". The ones I really hated were "The Great Work", "Easy Slider", "Requiem", and "Dust" (Well, except one part. See Rembrant comments below).

Characters/cast -

Rembrant (Cleavant): I agree that overall it was his best season since Season 2. However, he was still pretty good during early Season 3 and was better than anyone else in Season 4. My personal Rembrant highlight of the season was his reaction to discovering the caddy in "Dust" (and the ONLY reason ever to re-watch that episode).

Maggie (Kari): I also agree that it was her best season. She wasn't the awful bitch she was in Season 3 and she wasn't trying to be Wade as much as she had in Season 4. My personal Maggie highlight was by far the best Maggie episode of the entire series ("The Return of Maggie Beckett").

Diana Davis (Tembi Locke): Character started off strong ("The Unstuck Man" and "Applied Physics") but other than "To Catch A Slider" didn't show me much. Overall she was neither bad nor good she was just ... okay. I guess I'd say "Applied Physics" was her best episode.

Mallory (Robert Floyd): Like Diana/Tembi, character started off strong (the aforementioned "Unstuck Man" and "Applied Physics") but then turned into the 2nd most annoying character (the first being Rickman, of course) in the show's history. I do kind of understand why it would be difficult to maintain the whole Quinn/Mallory split personality thing for the entire season but it could have been done where subtle traces of Quinn would show up occasionally in Mallory throughout the season (i.e. in "Requiem", it would have been nice if Mallory seeing Wade would have jarred some of Quinn's memories of her). I guess I'd say the best Mallory episode was his first ("Unstuck Man").

Guest/recurring characters -

Geiger was pretty good in the first two episodes he was in but was terrible in "Eye of the Storm". Jerry Doyle was good and Dotrice as the Seer could have been better but was still way better than his other appearance as Mr. Chandler in Season 4.

Plot arcs/resolutions -

The Quinn/Mallory merging thing could have been way better but I still thought it was okay. Hell, it gets my vote for "best way an original cast member was written out of the series". The Kromagg weapon thing was kind of a letdown. The Wade resolution ... er, I don't want to think about it anymore. And what we saw in "Eye of the Storm" was I guess their half-assed attempt at a resolution to Quinn and Colin (Quinn can't be brought back and Colin is either lost or dead). And finally, as I've said a million times before, I thought "The Seer" made for a good season finale but a bad series finale.

Amazingly, all are good points!

Date: 06/17/2003
From: Grizzlor

you all said alot of things and I can't really disagree with any of it. Some quick things

Somebody asked about Floyd not wanting to be Jerry's Quinn. I probably read it on TemporalFlux's website a long time ago. I forget who the source of that was, a writer maybe. Whether Floyd was mad or not, they quickly realized the idea was a bad one.

somebody else said they were "writing on the fly," and I couldn't agree more. Maybe they were just passing the time to get the 18 more episodes. I think Damron's Journal is unbelievable telling. You see over and over again where the stories ideas would come from those doofs. It sounded more like an elementary school play my friends and I did in 5th grade. It was a western.

But it begs the question of Season 5......was it for the syndication count.....was it a farewell to the show. It certainly seemed that way. I saw them often trying to work in references to the earlier seasons, which was nice.

The reality, as proven in Damron's own journal, was that they had a bunch of vague story ideas, which often proved fruitless. Then they would just gump something out of an existing nonsliders script. Their only saving grace was they used a small group of the same directors, which kept sanity to the show.

Floyd was good at Quinn

Date: 06/18/2003
From: Recall317

I thought his performance in "The Unstuck Man" as the original Quinn Mallory was believable. I can understand wanting to create a new character of his own, but you didn't have to throw the other Quinn away to do that. As Grizzlor and others pointed out, an occassional moment where the other Quinn subconsciously emerged would have been good storytelling and keep the fans happy knowing the original Quinn was still helping the group out. You know, in the middle of a tight bind, Mallory would spit out some solution. Remmy says, "That's a great idea!" and Mallory, a little dejected says, "It wasn't mine." I'd have liked that.

I'd have also been cool with the original Quinn exiting the series in "Requiem" so long as he departed with Wade. Considering she could bend time and space, splitting the two Quinns may have been within Wade's abilities. Then we could have had Remmy looking at two head shots in the pond instead of one. :)

R317

Yeah, Recall...

Date: 06/18/2003
From: Slider_Quinn21

I was thinking the same idea about Wade and Quinn. It would've been a nice twist...

And I think they should've gone a little further than a line or two. Maybe an entire episode where Quinn's able to take over. Maybe even in "Eye of the Storm" so that Quinn can say himself that he doesn't want to sacrifice Mallory (instead of Rembrandt speaking for him).

But I still think they should've just had Floyd play Quinn. It would've been just as engaging...

Quinn
http://slidersweb.net/otherworlds/214

S 5 started out OK

Date: 06/20/2003
From: AlphaNova

No doubt "The Unstuck Man" and "Applied Physics" started to lay some groundwork for what could have been a good story arc during season 5. But then it got all tossed out the window.

Truth be told, when I saw the first two eps, I thought that the season would follow the struggle between Quinn and Mallory and the need to try to seperate them. But due to various reasons (most likely as Grizzlor said, the freelance staff with very vague ideas in the first place) this got thrown away.

Who knows, if there was a season six, perhaps they could have gotten back on track.

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