Respect the cruller...

Date: 11/06/2001
From: Recall317

...tame the donut!- Xander

[Caution: While cloaked in Buffy, this post does have SR moments]

Now THAT, my friends, is television. Buffy: the Musical struck me as a recipe for disaster, but I was completely floored by it. I laughed, I laughed some more, and I was thoroughly entertained.

Now I just started watching Buffy a few weeks ago on FX but I've since become a total addict. [Ducks for cover] This show (at least its first two seasons) is smart, funny and true to its characters. I.e., I've found my new Sliders. We didn't get the WB out here in Maine until last month, but our UPN affiliate has been airing Buffy since '99-00. So it's not like I'm kicking myself for missing out: I couldn't watch it even if I wanted to. Much as I couldn't watch the 4th and 5th seasons of Sliders until last November. Much as I STILL HAVEN'T SEEN ALL OF SEASON 5, THANK YOU VERY MUCH SCI-FI. But I digress...

I hear the show starts to follow the Slider formula of utterly decimating its characters by Season 5. I also hear this Dawn girl plays the role of Colin as the "lost sibling" needed to "hold open a gate." C'mon Joss, when you're ripping off Peckinpah, how low can you go?

But all is redeemed temporarily with the first breakout season 6 ep. It's extremely well written, and that's quite an accomplishment considering its mostly in verse, and it actually pays homage to continuity. What a concept! Referencing things that occured two, three, and five seasons ago! It's almost like the production staff was there from the beginning...[Hey FOX Execs, I'm talking to YOU! Imagine where Buffy would be had Whedon been forced out in favor of our vampire lovin' writer Josef Anderson...I shudder] And great extraneous moments. "They got the mustard out!" Now that's comedy! And we even had a classy demon with high style points. Outstanding.

I lament the fact that Tormé never got a chance to push Sliders to its potential extremes, especially in the wake of this Buffy episode. Even in the 6th season, Buffy's creator could still produce an instant classic.

Man, did we get screwed.

R317

PS. 100 points to anyone who can name the movie "Respect the cruller; tame the donut" references. Hint: it came out in 1999, and the soundtrack is outstanding.

I nearly lost it when Xander uttered that line. Another reason this show rocks.

The addiction spreads...

Date: 11/07/2001
From: ThomasMalthus

Beginning text must be destroyed!

Woohoo!! Another "Buffy" fan on the board!!

To reply: Whoever has been informing you about Season Five is seriously wrong. "Buffy" never approaches "Sliders"-level shark jumping (and actually comes closest in Season Four, not Five). People were very afraid that Dawn might be a sign the show was losing steam, but this has been disproven time and again (at least for all those who were willing to give Ms. Trachtenberg and Joss the benefit of the doubt). Plus Dawn doesn't look like a duck when she runs.

The show references stuff from past seasons all the time. It's one of the many, many things I love about it.

I claim the 100 points and cement my eternal fangeekitude by pointing out that that line was from "Magnolia".

If you're having problems getting episodes (missed an FX rerun or something) I've got everything from Season 3 on on tape. You're welcome to borrow anything you'd like.

Once again, welcome to the fold.

ThomasMalthus

BTW, Once More, With Feeling rocked! nt

Date: 11/07/2001
From: ThomasMalthus

Beginning text still must be destroyed!!

No topic, no topic
The text is microscopic
So why did you even look?
There was no bait on the hook
This ceaseless rhyming, I must stop it
Because I'm getting tired of this...tender embrace!

ThomasMalthus

Wasn`t the trachenberg girl on a soapie,

Date: 11/07/2001
From: sliderseth

with Sarah Michelle Geller (called All my Children(which I`ve never seen) which had Jack in from The Young and the Restless too) and Shannon Doherty was going to be on. Now Sarah inviting her friends on???
Seasons 4 and 5 of sliders got continuity: The exploring of anti-gravity in TROMB(Which goes all the way to the pilot); mentioning and showing scenes from past episodes all the time, trying to resolve the Wade storyline, getting back home, Tracy introduced the Kromaggs and David only trying to expand the storyline (and does a very good job) etc.
And lots of Charactizations : Exploring Mallorys past (Easy slider, NGFOetc ) Maggies past( TROMBetc in fact all the characters.

100 Points for TM

Date: 11/07/2001
From: Recall317

72 Points After Taxes

Impressive, TM, most impressive. I was really shocked to hear that line it as it most likely went over the heads of 98% of the audience. I doubt "Magnolia" managed to gross even $10 million and if you say the title of the film, most people think you're talking about "Steel Magnolias"--slightly different. ;)

Thanks for the offer on the tapes. Right now I'm just watching as they come on FX. Two a night! But I'm not building a tape collection just yet. I only tape when I know I won't be home. Fortunately, I wasn't home last night and taped "Once More, with Feeling." That's a keeper!

I'm still getting used to the S6 cast. I don't currently care for Tara or Dawn. It seems to me they have to many regulars at the moment. Cutting down the cast will increase focus on the storylines and keep a tighter script. The Halloween ep was all over the place trying to give everyone screen time. They'd have been better off just ignoring a few characters and staying focused on the spoof. The juxtaposition of arcs just didn't work.

R317

I'm a Buffy-newbie too.

Date: 11/07/2001
From: IamBoris2001

I've just recently started watching the re-runs on FX myself. So much great stuff was said about the show on this b-board, I had to check it out.

I haven't been watching it all that regularly, but that which I have seen, I must admit I have indeed been impressed by. I'm looking forward to catching up.

--IamBoris2001

Seth...

Date: 11/07/2001
From: Informant

Yeah, Michelle and Sarah were on the soap together. They are good friends in real life which is why, when Joss was looking for someone to play Dawn, Sarah suggested Michelle. However, Michelle had to audition for it. Sarah can't just casp people. Michelle had to prove herself as the best choice and it's no surprise that she got it since Michelle was an established and known actress before Buffy.

Shannen isn't going to be on the show.

And Rudolf Martin who played Dracula on the show, who played Sarah's boyfriend on the soap was probably cast because he just played Dracula in a big tv movie on the USA network, so it made sense to cast him there.

Sarah's been acting for almost 20 years. She has worked with a lot of people, and it's no surprise that people she knows would pop up in some of her other projects.

Ever hear of Kevin Bacon? There's a whole game about how you can connect everyone in Hollywood to the guy. He's only been acting for about five years longer than Sarah.

Attention Buffy newbies

Date: 11/08/2001
From: Joey_Starr

to complete your initiation you must take turns flaming sliderseth. If you have already done so in the past, you may provide a link to be exempt. Though I know just for the hell of it that you would just the same flame him anyway.

There now if sliderseth accuses me of "rallying the troops" against him, at least he has something to go by.

All jokes aside, welcome to the fandom that is Buffy the Vampire Slayer. We are glad to have you join us. See seth? Sliders fans and Buffy fans CAN live in peaceful harmony!

JS
Just another nitch in the anti-seth movement

PS seth

Date: 11/08/2001
From: Joey_Starr

Shannon appearing as a guest on Buffy was nothing more than a rumor. This had been addressed by both Sarah AND Joss a while ago.

JS
Can seth get anything right?

I said was not is!

Date: 11/09/2001
From: sliderseth

Get you past and present tenses right!!!

Methinks Whedon is a Magnolia fan

Date: 11/09/2001
From: Stax_

Exhibit A : The above line

Exhibit B: He has stated in interviews that Aimee Mann's songs were a source of inspiration behind his own in " Once More, With Feeling ". The opening line of Aimee Mann's song " Deathly " provided the basis for the entire Magnolia screenplay.” Wise Up " is at the centre of the film's most heartwrenching sequence and Aimee Mann provides 80% of the material on the Magnolia soundtrack.

That Whedon would mention any songwriting he was doing in the same sentence as Mann is courageous .I haven't seen the episode and won't be able to do so for some time but, unsurprisingly, from the clips I've heard the quality of songwriting is inferior. They suffer too much from squeezing explanatory lyrics into a melody that can't take them and tinny singing voices. But as I've said Whedon is brave and the songs are a strong first effort .He isn't in the business of writing songs and the cast aren't in the business of singing so you can't really be that harsh on them.

Recall ,if you like the Magnolia soundtrack buy,borrow or steal Bachelor No. 2 .It COMPLETELY dwarves Mann's previous work .Not as melancholy but more cynical and bitter ,ingredients they make just as good art .A masterpiece in the true sense of the word .

Exhibit 3: Whedon's direction seems to have been influenced by Paul Thomas Anderson’s. Certain shots like the rapid camera push-in on Joyce's body, the slow zoom in on Anya during her monologue and the Steadicam shot of the doctor walking through the halls in The Body are clever tricks very reminiscent of Anderson.

Exhibit 4 : This may be stretching it but Anya's monologue in The Body reminded me instantly of Julianne Moore's breakdown in the pharmacy in Magnolia. Both original pieces in their own right but both also possess certain similarities like inarticulate ideas and instant hysteria.

Is it scary that when Aimee Mann, Magnolia and a Joss Whedon penned episodes of Buffy (all minor obsessions of mine) converge, if only for 2 three word lines, I should get such a kick out of it .I guess it's somehow gratifying to see artists you admire admiring each other.

Ah well.stax

If it's Mann, it must be good

Date: 11/10/2001
From: Recall317

In the beginning, there was text

Stax,

I don't have Bachelor #2 yet but I'm planning on picking it up soon. 4 of the Magnolia tracks are on it so that already bodes well! Funny thing is, I had almost given up on Mann before I picked up the "Magnolia" soundtrack a month ago. While "Whatever" is a great piece of work, "I'm With Stupid" did nothing for me. I had a gift certificate so I decided to give Aimee another shot. Glad I did! That CD has not left the machine. I even downloaded it into my computer at work.

It doesn't hurt that I'm a longtime fan of her husband, Michael Penn. Pretty much everyone in that clique- Penn, Mann, Jon Brion, Fiona Apple...I like them all. What a cool group of people they'd be to hang out with.

I'll be looking for more references in Buffy eps from now on. Maybe even get some soundtrack action going for my boy Penn...not bloody likely, but one can hope.

Thanks for the info!

R317

Recall, man...

Date: 11/11/2001
From: Brand_S

The only thing I'm in more genuine admiration of than your eye for shitty music is your eye for good music. Aimee Mann is AWESOME! I hated "Magnolia" with a burning crimson passion, but that soundtrack is one of the best things I've ever heard... although sadly I still don't own it.

Although for the record, I'm also getting into Lenny Kravitz too. The more I hear of his music, the cooler he gets. I've even gotten to the point where I recognize members of his backing band!

As for the shitty music, I'll go get the Air Supply albums...

S

Shut yo' face !

Date: 11/11/2001
From: Stax_

Magnolia was genius .

The ambition ,the audacity ,the originality .I find it very hard to argue for Magnolia without insulting the intelligence of everyone who disliked it so I'll just quit with this three line anecdote .

Magnolia provided me the impetus to purchase a DVD machine .I wanted it just so I could buy and watch the Magnolia DVD box set .It was THAT good .

But Brand_S I can forgive you this considerable character flaw .You like Aimee Mann .I know I'm preaching to the converted but her magic doesn't lie solely in her near perfect melodies but also in her lyrics .They ooze intelligence .She has peppered her songs with references to the works of Charles Dickens, Mark Twain, F. Scott Fitzgerald and Daniel Clowes ,all writers that share her cyniscism and humanity .

I really like "I'm With Stupid " from what I've heard .It's practically unattainable in Ireland and I shy away from internet sites you can order on .And I'm not saying that in a crazed Farscape fan kind of way ,I thought "Whatever" was only okay .But "4th of July" ...

Get Bachelor No. 2 please .For your own sake .stax

An Afterthought

Date: 11/11/2001
From: Stax_

Of "You Do","Driving Sideways","Deathly" and the acoustic version of "Nothing is Good Enough" ,the 4 Magnolia tracks on Bachelor No. 2, only "Deathly" still dazzles in it's surrounds ."Nothing is Good Enough" is definitly improved upon within the addition of lyrics .

And to bring the clique full circle Paul Thomas Anderson ,the writer/director of Magnolia ,is Fiona Apple's boyfriend .stax

Beware of Falling Frogs

Date: 11/12/2001
From: Recall317

They're heavier than they look!

I can't give "Magnolia" rave reviews. I agree with you on the ambition and audacity, but it didn't fully execute. Now granted, I've only seen the film once so I may have missed a lot of the subtleties, but it didn't tie together in a way that left me satisfied. At moments, particularly when the quiz show is underway and the action is picking up from all sides, I thought the movie would deliver. But then it didn't stop. It went on for an additional hour and in my opinion, didn't need to. And that's my criticism of PT Anderson. He needs an editor. "Boogie Nights" was doing a great job until it refused to end.

Now Anderson is a fine talent and clearly many actors can see this. You don't get Tom Cruise in a film unlikely to gross $10 million unless he adores the script. But it seemed "Magnolia" was a three hour homage to "Wise Up". It literally felt tailored to a four minute song. But it didn't end! And I didn't see how the end of the film related to the beginning of the film. Where is the irony in a rain of frogs? As touching as this film is, I needed more from the plot. (I can hear Tigs banging her head against her desk in frustration with me right now.)

Unlike S, I don't have a burning hatred of the film, but I can see where his frustration lies. And we do all agree that the soundtrack is phenominal. :)

R317

Well, the thing about Magnolia is...

Date: 11/12/2001
From: Brand_S

Tom Cruise's role REALLY REALLY made me want to punch him in the face. This is compounded by the fact that I watched this movie with my sister... my LOUD, RADICAL FEMINIST sister... as well as my right-wing, uber-prude parents.

But what frustrated me was that the story wasn't as interconnected as I would've liked. It would have been great if the nine main characters and their storylines all converged into one at the end, but instead the only thing connecting them were frogs falling from the sky.

But there were some great touches, like the Ronald Opus-based thing at the beginning and that painting that read "But it did happen..." (which presumably was supposed to foreshadow the frogs), but I guess I was just looking for something completely different when I watched it. And I couldn't agree with Recall more when he said that the film just wouldn't end.

As I see it, some films are like Enya songs. They can be extremely good while being short and concise... even IF I always associate Enya in my writings with running gags about "Aunt (Orinoco) Flo." I just wish I could think off the top of my head of any good dramas that were less than 3 hours long. Damn you, Dances With Wolves, JFK, and Saving Private Ryan!

And Stax_, what are you mad at ME for? You're the lucky one. You live in Ireland. Ireland has EVERYTHING! Do you know what I would give to live in the same country as U2 or the Cranberries or... okay, just U2 and the Cranberries, but the point is, you're still part of the only people who can actually keep track of Dolores O'Ridian's ever-changing hairstyle, and you are at the birthplace of natural red hair as well! I call that LUCK... unless you're like one of my offline friends, whose dad is from the Protestant part of Ireland and mom from the Catholic part of Ireland; in that case, I would suggest moving here if I were you.

S

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