Not looking good for Buffy...

Date: 09/27/2001
From: sliderseth

What. With the show moving to another network overthere. Joss concentrating on his new show, the one who plays Giles quiting the show and Buffy dead (I don`t think people will buy buffy been revived- but it happened in Xena lots of times-didn`t it.) I think Buffy won`t last -Hope so.

UPN has already guaranteed 2 seasons.

Date: 09/27/2001
From: FogBoy

So, even if the show ends at season 7... uh, that's a pretty healthy run anyway, so why complain, right?

Reply...

Date: 09/27/2001
From: Informant

The Giles show won't begin filming until Spring, so while Joss will be working on that, the cartoon and the comics, I think he'll still make the time to look over Buffy and make sure that nothing goes bad there. Buffy is his baby. He always gives special attention to Buffy. Like, he will write three Buffy episodes this year, is what I think he said. Did he write any Angel last year? (aside from coming up with the story idea)

Plus, Marti Noxon stands a good chance of being able to pick up the slack without letting the show drift. She usually does good work, even if it does tend to be a little sex crazy.

 

Also, every time people hear something about Buffy, they think there's no way it can be pulled off.
"An episode where they don't talk?!"
"They killed Angel?!"
"A Buffy robot?!"

Hell, there was even the famous, "A show made from that crappy movie?!"

But time and time again, they surprise us. The writing is great on the show. That's why I've learned to trust them with all the things that sound like they can't possibly be pulled off. I've only been let down once.

Wow...

Date: 09/27/2001
From: FogBoy

First off, I'll mention that Joss wrote 'Judgement' on Angel last season. Which I greatly enjoyed.

Second off, the wow part...

You're so clearly much more of a Buffy fan than I am. It's not that I don't like the show. I respect it. I enjoyed it. More than that - I watch it RELIGIOUSLY. I can't miss an episode... but I've lost count of how many times it's diappointed me. The times it's been trite, gone in the wrong direction, done the wrong thing. There's just too many.

I think even you are aware, though, that they've disappointed you more than once. I think you're referring to Tara's "secret." Even so, aren't you disappointed by Willow/Tara? The general handling of those characters and that relationship? The declaration that Willow is "gay" (not bi), the fact that Tara has had SO LITTLE characterization even after two years, the fact that Willow is headed down an obnoxious path (something which may be redeemed if she turns evil - but otherwise?)? There's also those things, so that would at least add up to two or three times for you. Still a LOT less than me.

As for the times when Angel has disappointed me, well, I can count those on one hand. No wonder I'm an even MORE passionate fan of that show.

another reply...

Date: 09/27/2001
From: Informant

Judgement was written by David Greenwalt. Joss co-wrote the story, but that's all he did. I don't remember him writing an episode himself since season 1. But he always makes sure to write a few Buffy episodes.

As for the other things... I've gotten to kinda like Tara, so that doesn't bug me. The Willow stuff bugged me until they started making it an issue on the show, which made me realize that it's an actual plot, not a mistake.

Buffy has only done one thing for me that ever ruined an episode, or an arc. There are little things that I'd prefer didn't happen, but nothing that such a big deal that it totally blew the show.

Well, no....

Date: 09/27/2001
From: FogBoy

...the show's never been ruined. It takes a LOT to ruin a show. It takes a "Sliders season 3" to ruin a show. That's a lot of crap.

Yup, my bad on the Angel thing. I guess he last did some scriptwriting when he co-wrote 'Sanctuary' with Tim Minear. I'm not missing him, though, considering the ideas he's throwing into Buffy lately. I'm hoping season 6 will be more full of the good than season 5 was.

Oh, I tossed a reply your way in regards to The Summer of Aught One part 4, up in its thread. Thought you might like to know. Nothing too exciting, it was pretty much all good.

Hmm?

Date: 09/28/2001
From: Informant

What was bad in season 5? Aside from one episode, I thought it was an amazing year. Emotional rollercoaster. Good character development. And all but the one episode fit into the major arc of the season in some way. I really loved season 5.

I guess different strokes for different folks, right?

Replied to the other post (nim)

Date: 09/28/2001
From: Informant

... Summer Of Aught One!

Season 5...

Date: 09/28/2001
From: FogBoy

For me, Season 5's problems fall into three areas.

1) Dawn - More than anything, bringing in Dawn was the biggest pain wrought by S5. She hasn't proved to be a useful presence, she hasn't proved to be an INTERESTING presence... basically, she serves two purposes. She acts as a hostage for bad guys, and she acts ANNOYING the rest of the time. 'Blood Ties' was really the episode that made her work, and outside of that... I'm still not sure why we're putting up with her.

2) Glory - I've whined about her before. She was strong, she was a god, and yet, she came off as a non-threatening ditz. I cared more about various other season arcs than this one, which is a problem when this is the "big bad" arc.

3) Finale - I think the finale is very well-written. I think it's well-directed. I enjoy it. Buffy is, however, kind of an idiot in it... but we understand her point of view (why everybody else around her wouldn't just defy her and kill Dawn anyway is kind of question, but I guess no one wants to face her wrath). The real problem is that... well, she's dead. And that's a lame, cheap device. When Angel vanished at the end of season 2, there was pretty much zero doubt that he'd return. And yet, Buffy's death has even LESS doubt behind it. It's not believable. And unless something really AMAZING comes from it... something that I can't imagine the series going without... then it's gonna remain cheap.

Of course, the season had other smaller problems for me. Like Tara's revelation (what the hell was that?). Or how Spike is even retro-neutered, by the way they show his victories against the two slayers to be LUCKY. Well, he'll never be threatening again NOW. Or the weak, predictable season opener. Or the fact that Willow not only becomes the most powerful member of the Scooby Gang, but is STATED OUT LOUD TO BE SO. Funny, I didn't know this show was named "Willow the SuperWitch"...

It was the smaller arcs that really won me over. The "Spike's in love with Buffy" arc was one I hated the idea of, but I think that, overall, they've done an amazing job. I just wish it made more sense in regards to the whole "no soul" thing, which is still the question on the minds of many. Is he really so strong-willed as to be able to rebel against his lack of soul? Angelus couldn't.

Giles got to be Buffy's watcher again, which was another plus.

More than anything, the two greatest success of the season are -

1) Joyce's death. Without a doubt, one of the most powerful subplots to ever come out of this series were Joyce's tumor and the death that followed. It reeked of a soap, yes, but it was done so hauntingly, both before (in the creepy 'Listening to Fear') and particularly when it came time for 'The Body' and 'Forever.'

2) Riley's departure. I've made no bones about how much I loved this character, where everyone else hated him. His ultimate departure was such a perfect note, playing off of all his character's innate-since-S4 traits of inadequacy and self-loathing. It worked for him, it worked for Buffy, but perhaps most of all, it worked for XANDER, and gave his character the kind of intense self-confidence we've seen far too little of for too long.

However, I want to see a GOOD big bad this year. I want to see the death actually be worthwhile. I hope I see it, but my hopes aren't too high... unless we get Willow as the big bad, of course.

My reply to your reply...

Date: 09/28/2001
From: Informant

1) We differ here. I thought Dawn was one of the best things about season 5. I thought she made the season really great. I also identify with her, being the youngest in my family and knowing a lot of what she goes through. Michelle is great, and with Willow going off the deep end, she helped bring a balance back to the show. I didn't see anything I didn't like with Dawn. I thought she was great.

2) I liked Glory. I thought that she could be creepy when she needed to be, and fun the rest of the time. Plus, Glory went hand-in-hand with the arc of Buffy's having to deal with life and death. The fact that they used a god as the baddie was a good choice because the whole season was having Buffy deal with life and death, and the god aspect is one that a lot of people go through.

3) I agree that it's got to be a huge event when Buffy comes back, and not a loophole. However, I don't think that the story was about leaving us wondering if she was coming back. I don't think they just came up with the most shocking thing they could think of, just for the gimmick of it. The death of Buffy was the natural way to end her arc of the life/death struggle. Her finally coming to terms with it, accepting it, and learning to deal with it. It wasn't about her dying, it was about her learning and growing.

 

I agree on the Tara thing. I sometimes still hope that there's more to it, but I fear that it will remain that silly forever.

I strongly disagree that Spike's killing the slayers was luck. Those were some really cool fight scenes and Spike earned the kills. It's not like the slayers tripped on their stakes and he just took credit. He put up a good fight. The other slayers also rocked... especially the Chinese slayer. She was so cool, but Spike beat her fait and square.
I think that when Spike goes back to evil, he will be even creepier than before. With the connections the characters are forming to him, and all that he is learning... when he goes back to evil, not only will it be a shock to the system, but it will be creepy to see how his personality blends the good and the evil. Maybe they're just making him as good as they are now, just to set up the shock of his return to evil.

I loved "Buffy vs. Dracula". It wasn't meant to be the most serious episode ever, just to get back in the groove of things, and I loved it. It was funny, disturbing, creepy, dramatic and just plain cool. It was predictible because it played off the most well known vampire story on this planet. It was a semi-spoof.

The Willow thing is annoying, but it's an arc that will lead to something. The fact that they mention it on the show isn't annoying to me, it's reassuring. Like they realize that this is happening and they're not letting it happen by mistake or something. My guess is that Willow will continue to do a lot of fighting, perhaps until Buffy gets back into action, then this will all lead to something big. I'll see how this plays out before I make a final call.

I think Spike's whole obession with Buffy and desire to be good is more of a self preservation device. If he goes on to join the bad guys and fight the Scoobies however he can, he's still an easy kill. He can't defend himself. However, if it's the demon world that is mad at him, then he can at least protect himself against those who hate him. It's probably his minds way of preserving itself until he can break loose again.

I liked Riley a lot too, but I think the show was really good when he left. Not because he wasn't there, but because it gave Buffy a chance to focus on something other than romance. I always thought that the fewer couples there were, the more fun the show was. When the characters are single, they have more time for their friends. And the Buffy/Xander/Willow chemistry is the show's greatest asset. We got the Buffy/Xander part back now... now we wait for Willow, I guess.

B/X/W

Date: 09/29/2001
From: FogBoy

I definitely agree about the Buffy/Willow/Xander stuff. It's frustrated me for a while, but I don't think I quite knew how to word the problem until now. And I do think that it's good to let Buffy be single for a while. It's happened very rarely on the show... she's always dealing with someone. It's nice to see her be on her own, handling herself. I do hope that Willow comes into play a little more soon, with the other two - it's hard for Buffy to call Will her best friend when we aren't really seeing that on the screen.

Hope you're right about the death. Maybe you will be. If so, I'll eat crow and love it. Right now I just feel like it's a trite device because, we may not be wondering, but are we supposed to grieve or feel moved by the loss when she's not all that dead? What's the point if she's just coming back anyway? That's why Joss has to earn her return by making it really effect everyone, especially Buffy herself, in ways that are worthwhile and intresting.

As for Spike's fights with the other slayers... Well, my problem was that he always won because of some external environmental force. He defeated the Chinese slayer because an explosion threw her off of him, and that gave him the advantage. He defeated the slayer in New York because dead spots in the track turned out the train lights, which, again, gave him the upper hand. I wanted to see him win simply out of solid, one-on-one fighting skill.

Well...

Date: 09/30/2001
From: sliderseth

I resent you calling season 3 of Sliders crap - most fans agree guardian was in top ten best episodes of the series and THAT was in season 3. And season 4 wasn`t crap either informant. Roads Taken and Alternaterville horror is 2 of my in my favorites list. And got the best thing to happen to sliders - Kromaggs (and not the puppets of season 2) As for Buffy ,not worth replying to (Angel`s good.)

You're right, Seth. I'm sorry...

Date: 09/30/2001
From: Informant

Not all of season 3 was crap. The Guardian was good and Double Cross was good... it was just every other episode that was crap, and most Sliders fans will agree to that.

As for season 4... yeah, sorry, that was crap. All of it. Not one minute went by where it wasn't crap. It was 100% grade A, pure, authentic crap. Home grown and packaged at the lovely Scifi craptorium in Los Angeles, California. If it was any worse, they'd have to give it an new name, because "crap" just wouldn't be strong enough word to describe how awful the season was.

Betterthat, than a whole show.

Date: 10/01/2001
From: sliderseth

like Buffy.

I won't get into a big fight over this

Date: 10/01/2001
From: Informant

Look, you don't like Buffy. Fine. Whatever.

It's fine with me that you don't get the show, and like Sliders better. I don't see why it would have to be a big issue.

I disagree with Informant

Date: 10/01/2001
From: Joey_Starr

Sliderseth's take on this show IS a big issue. It's a big issue because he makes it so. You see, the problem is not that he dislikes the show. He has every right to do so. The problem isn't that he doesn't get it. Heck, if not getting it is a problem then he has much more to worry about than Buffy or Sliders.
You see the problem here is that Sliderseth is a pompus ass. This young boy(I use this term loosely) has a problem with people enjoying something that is beyond him. This series of anti-Buffy behavior can be attributed to his ignorance as well as his boredom. After all, watching season 3 eps and jerking off to the latest issue of PC Gamer which features Pokemon Stadium 2 can only amuse you for so long.
This is a big issue now because Slimerbreath just won't let up. You know Sissy, uh, I mean seth, for a guy who hates Buffy so much you sure like to talk about Buffy a lot. A person who dislikes a show so much would not only avoid posts about that show but he would also(if he had any brains) NOT start threads about it! Care to explain?

You have been asked nicely to stop this behavior, you have been flamed for performing this kind of behavior, and you have been warned to stop this behavior. Yet here you persist to go out of your way to stomp on a show that you are obviously obsessed with. Do take care death, or uh, seth; because as promised you are now my newest whipping boy. The only shame in this is that you will cower behind that keyboard of yours and try to creatively avoid my flames instead of facing me head on and providing me with a decent challenge.
Sliderseth you have been given too many chances. Now reap the penalties!

JS
Leader of the new one man anti- 'seth campaign

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