Date: 5/20/2000
From: Stax_

Warning : This post is going to get very confusing .

This theory is based upon the belief that the only true way for the sliders to get home is by taking their quantum signatures , extrapolating co-ordinates and going home that way as random sliding through an infinite number of worlds is unlikely to get you there .

The sliders slide off Earth Prime to world B . While there they make three choices , causing another 13 worlds along with the original to pop into existance . This also means that another 13 groups of sliders have been formed with the exact same quantum signature . Carry on 5 more years down the road , the amount of sliding groups becomes mind boggling , all of which have the one quantum signature . They eventually arrive on a world that can send them home via their signatures . They arrive home and suddenly a vortex appears with an identical group emerging . Then another and another . Then they discover there is already a group that have taken their " places " say the sliders from Into The Mystic that went to the door of Quinn's house , met his mother and decide to stay . Finally ,Arturo #62 decides to put an end to the madness by taking all of their quantum signatures to see which bunch is the real one . And shock , horror all of them have the right one . They are all versions of the original group . As Earth Prime " split " so did it's quantum signature and because the sliders weren't there ,their's couldn't follow the same path. The longer the sliders spent off world , the more doubles were created . Each group has the right to call Earth Prime it's own .
On the other hand , maybe their signature were changed as part of a split on some other world . That point is moot anyway because it corrupts their signature and wouldn't lead them home anyway .

You may poke holes in my theory .... NOW .stax

I think it makes sense...

Date: 5/20/2000
From: Doctor_Quinn

Believe it or not, I was thinking about something similar. Like, because of Wade, the Professor's and Quinn's choice to slide, there should be other worlds created. If Wade decided to stay, for instance, Quinn might not have pushed up the power and Remmy would have gotten to the stadium instead of being dragged along for the ride. Or, if he still had increased the power, then a few worlds would have been warped. Assuming they trio still slide from the Nuclear Winter Earth, the problem with Wade and the telephone company would have been avoided. Rembrandt may have caught the cab anyway and have gotten involved in the People'S Court and such, but Wade wouldn't have been there to spot him on the TV, even if they *did* establish a friendship with the underground without her.
Wow! Now *my* explanation has got to be confusing!

The good doctor

Umm..No....

Date: 5/20/2000
From: buffyboy

Okay:
Parallel universes aren't created every time you make a decision. That just doesn't make sense. I could make the decision to hold my breath right now, or any other time I breathe. So, every time I breathe a completely new universe springs up?
Where would all the mass and energy come from?
How could it be existing at the same time as my own reality even though mine has existed for billions of years previously?
The logic is severely lacking.

Also, assuming that in the show's continuity parallel universes are created with every decision, they would not have the same quantum signature as each other. That's the whole point of quantum signatures-No universe has the SAME one!
If worlds are splitting off of one base world, those worlds are *not* the same as the base (hence the term "alternate"), and would therefore have *different* quantum signatures.
Get it?

BB=:~)

BB ,you have missed the point completely

Date: 5/20/2000
From: Stax_

Completely .

Firstly , how about dropping the condescending attitude especially when it is you who have demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge when it comes to the premise and science behind the show .

I will now deconstruct you reply piece by piece .

>> Parallel universes aren't created every time you make a decision. That just doesn't make sense.

Let me get this straight , you don't except my theory because you don't believe in parallel earths . The problem there lies with you , not me . I seriously can't believe anybody could watch ONE episode of Sliders and not understand that they travel to versions of Earth where different decisions have shaped the worlds . This is the basis of Sliders . The PREMISE of the show .

>> I could make the decision to hold my breath right now, or any other time I breathe. So, every time I breathe a completely new universe springs up?

Exactly .

>> Where would all the mass and energy come from?

I have a question for you . Where did all the mass and energy come from to form this universe ? The science dealing with parallel earths we have now is completely theoretical and not very well understood .

>> How could it be existing at the same time as my own reality even though mine has existed for billions of years previously?

I doesn't exist at the same time because it doesn't exist . Well , not until the choice has been made . The best analogy I could give and the one most used is a fork in the road . There is one road in the beginning but it will eventually lead to two . The choice causes the fork . It is a choice point . The show supports me on this . Watch New Gods For Old , Diana says " We are travelling through a cluster of worlds all branching off from the same choice point " .

>> The logic is severely lacking.

Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's illogical .

>> Also, assuming that in the show's continuity parallel universes are created with every decision, they would not have the same quantum signature as each other.

You don't need to assume ,I have just proven it . Every time a new universe is created a new quantum signature is created too . The show supports me on this . Watch The Alternative Horror . Quinn says " Every universe has it's own quantum signature " and since NGFO proves that parallel universe " pop " into existance , you have been proven wrong .

>> That's the whole point of quantum signatures-No universe has the SAME one!

Never said anything to dispute that .

>> If worlds are splitting off of one base world, those worlds are *not* the same as the base (hence the term "alternate")

Yes , but only because of the choice splitting the universes . The choice causes the universe to split , it differs because of the choice . That's why they are not the same . Thet are called alternates because they are different from the choice point ON .

>> and would therefore have *different* quantum signatures.

You have got it backwards . They have different quantum sinatures from the choice point on not because the exist already .

>> Get it?

No , do you get it ?

There you go . Your entire post is rubbish .stax

My problem...

Date: 5/20/2000
From: JorgeCis

So let's say, for argument's sake, that parallel universes do exist. There's a bit of evidence for the existence of the multiverse (Michael Chricton's "Timeline" does a great job in explaining it). But, are parallel universes really spliting off? Or do they all start at once and the choices we make are different thanks to certain outside events?

Let me give an example on an outside event. Say there are two people, Allie and Ben, on two exact same worlds. They decide to go out on a picnic. In one world, the weather is beautiful, and they have their meal together. In the other world, it rains, and so they decide to stay indoors. Nine months later, a child is born. So, something outside of their control caused this to happen.

If worlds really do split off from each other, then are we really in control of our own destiny? For all we know, this world is an offshoot of another. Stax brushed his teeth this morning. A world is created and now he didn't. Who made that decision for Stax_2 not to brush his teeth? Him or our Stax?

If all of them were created at once, religiously, it would be better for me. I'm a strong believer in choosing my own destiny (because I fail to see why any higher power would have my life lived the way it was). The theory of multiverses can seriously contradict that.

 

Jorge

What other television programme .....

Date: 5/20/2000
From: Stax_

could raise issues of destiny and religious faith . That is something that even Peck can't destroy .

Jorge , your beliefs towards the universe are your own and it's not like I could give facts supporting either case . But as far as the show goes it has been established that parallel universes " split " . I know that you are telling us your opinions on the multiverse and not Sliders but I just wanted to clarify .stax

Stax

Date: 5/20/2000
From: JorgeCis

My post was more of a response to the discussion between you and Buffyboy on the aspects of whether or not it exists. Sorry if I didn't state that. :-)

As for your theory, you bring up an interesting point. If a new world is created with Sliders, then which quantum signatures would they have? What would they call "home" exactly? I think that universes are created not taking sliding into account. Otherwise that would create a mess.

Jorge

Stax...

Date: 5/20/2000
From: buffyboy

Parallel universes aren't created every time a decision is made.
If you think about it logically, all parallel universe must have been created the same point in time, the dawn of the multiverse (the Big Bang, or whatever theory you happen to believe).
Of course there are parallel universes on the show, but they aren't created with every choice a person makes.
In Summer of Love (I think), Quinn states that there could be six alternate universes, or six million. This suggests a set number of universes.
What Diana said in "New Gods for Old" is a contradiction of that if taken in the terms you think of it as. But, by choice point, couldn't she be referring to the point where the continuity of one Earth diverged from that of her own, instead of the point where a person made a choice?
It's not un-heard of on the show to have the Sliders visit worlds that are similar to each other, like Earth Double Prime and the chain of Earths in "As Time Goes By". They don't necessarily branch off of a choice point made by someone, their histories may just be similar to one another.

Also, one of the main points of your theory is the fact that all the doubles of the Sliders from "Pilot" can call the Earth Prime of the same ep home, because they all have the same quantum signatures. But, since they are all from different dimensions, this can't be. You seem to suggest that if all the doubles' worlds sprung from "Pilot" Earth Prime, that all of those Earths would have the same quantum signature.
In your reply to me, you then said that all parallel universes did have different quantum signatures.
Your original post seems to contradict that, doesn't it?

You invited people to poke holes in your theory, and I did.

BB=:~)

Logical holes Buffboy

Date: 5/20/2000
From: Stax_

In NGFO Diana uses the the word " branch " which suggests that parallel universes are offshoots from other universes .
I would take that as the definitive answer . Not because Diana was smarter than Quinn but because she knew more about it . She knew about merging , combining worlds and she had the PDL . In Summmer Of Love Quinn was trying to get across the fact to Remmy and Wade , the lay people , that they don't know how many parallel worlds out there . Also they were relatively new to sliding .
If Diana had meant to say that all universes were created simultaneously she wouldn't have used the world " branching " .

I don't know what to make of your second paragraph so I'll approach it like my other reply .

>> Also, one of the main points of your theory is the fact that all the doubles of the Sliders from "Pilot" can call the Earth Prime of the same ep home, because they all have the same quantum signatures.

Yes, all doubles from the original group after they had begun sliding .

>> But, since they are all from different dimensions, this can't be.

Here , this is the statement where you have gone astray . They are all from the same dimension , Earth Prime's dimension .

>> You seem to suggest that if all the doubles' worlds sprung from "Pilot" Earth Prime, that all of those Earths would have the same quantum signature.

All the doubles' worlds ? Point out to me where I said . Also , I never said all Earths would have the same quantum signature , each Earth MUST have a unique quantum signature .

>> In your reply to me, you then said that all parallel universes did have different quantum signatures.
Your original post seems to contradict that, doesn't it?

How ? Where is the contradiction ? I don't know what posts you have been reading but they certainly weren't mine .stax

Should read " Buffyboy "

Date: 5/20/2000
From: Stax_

In case you thought it was a dig .stax

I'm going to try and explain it.....

Date: 5/20/2000
From: buffyboy

..so that you understand.
You said this about the doudles of the Sliders:
They are all from the same dimension , Earth Prime's dimension .

They CAN NOT be from the same dimension!!

They are DOUBLES.
Versions of people from DIFFERENT dimensions, not the same one.

As for your comments on how you said nothing about the doubles' worlds, how can you make a comment about doubles without implying that they came from soemwhere?
So, what you're saying is all the doubles just came from nothing, or even worse, the same world?
You may not have mentioned the doubles' Earths directly, but the fact that you are talking about doubles implies that they are all from separate dimensions and have separate quantum signatures as result.
Does this make sense to you now?
Am I not exlplaining it correctly?

BB=:~)

Okay ...

Date: 5/20/2000
From: Stax_

In the beginning there was one group of sliders . They slid to Ice World . At the moment there is one group . Instead of going into Remmy's cadillac they go into Quinn's house . A split occurs . Now there is two groups . Two groups with the same quantum signature . There is where your basic problem lies , right ?

In an attempt to explain this for once and for all I'll go through your last post .

>> You said this about the doudles of the Sliders:
They are all from the same dimension , Earth Prime's dimension .

Wrong .I never said that . Quote me please . What I said was that all the doubles of the sliding group during the period they spent sliding originated from Earth Prime . By definition they must .

>> They CAN NOT be from the same dimension!!

Wrong . Let's say Wade decided not to dye her hair does that not mean she is not from Earth Prime . In the beginning there was one Wade . Then she made a choice . The universe " split " . Now there is two . Both from Earth Prime . Both from the same dimension .

>> They are DOUBLES.
Versions of people from DIFFERENT dimensions, not the same one.

Wrong . I have just explained why it is . Under most circumstances you would be right but once you start sliding and a " split " occurs they double is from the same dimension as you .

>> As for your comments on how you said nothing about the doubles' worlds, how can you make a comment about doubles without implying that they came from soemwhere?

Not all of , say , Wades doubles are from Earth Prime . Only the ones that diverged from her while she was sliding .

>> So, what you're saying is all the doubles just came from nothing, or even worse, the same world?

Where do you get this stuff ? Could you find a reference I made that could even be radically interpretated as meaning that . I'm repeating myself when I say the only Wades from Earth Prime is the original and her doubles diverged from her while sliding .

>> Does this make sense to you now?
Am I not exlplaining it correctly?

You are arguing against stuff I never said or implied . Buffyboy , I recommend you read the posts again with the help of the many , many aids I've provided .stax

"Infinite" Possibilities

Date: 5/20/2000
From: JorgeCis

After thinking about it, I'd have to say that maybe there are some limitations to "infinite possibilities". It's generally agreed that quantum signatures are unique to each world. Well, can't two worlds exist with the same signature? Infinite possibilities, right? I guess not.

So I'm guessing that there are some limitations to these things. By what you're saying, Stax, about the branching off, I'd venture to guess that each group has a distinct Earth Prime.

Your example says that there's a group of Sliders in say, Daelin world. Wade dyes her hair there. Now, because of that, you're saying that a new world has just been created, one exactly like Daelin World, except with a brown-haired Wade. Those new Sliders may find a surprise for them: they're already ON Earth Prime. Because by this theory, they were created with the quantum signature of DW2. They'll continue sliding, looking for a home that isn't really theirs.

I think that sliding is something that's outside of making new worlds, much like making two worlds with the same signature or a world with new laws of physics. Kinda like time-travel: The people that time-travelled aren't always affected. I mean, after all, shouldn't they remember the new timeline?

Jorge

Jorge

Date: 5/20/2000
From: Stax_

I agree with some of what you said .

>> After thinking about it, I'd have to say that maybe there are some limitations to "infinite possibilities". It's generally agreed that quantum signatures are unique to each world. Well, can't two worlds exist with the same signature? Infinite possibilities, right? I guess not.

I agree with you fully there .

>> So I'm guessing that there are some limitations to these things. By what you're saying, Stax, about the branching off, I'd venture to guess that each group has a distinct Earth Prime.

I don't think so . The number of doubles created offworld doesn't necessarily have to equal Earth Primes created . The figures might not match up exactly .

>> Your example says that there's a group of Sliders in say, Daelin world. Wade dyes her hair there. Now, because of that, you're saying that a new world has just been created, one exactly like Daelin World, except with a brown-haired Wade .

Yes .

>> Those new Sliders may find a surprise for them: they're already ON Earth Prime. Because by this theory, they were created with the quantum signature of DW2. They'll continue sliding, looking for a home that isn't really theirs.

I don't know about that . Who is to say which group keeps it's quantum signature . I think that the sliders will retain the quantum signatures no matter what but that would still have made a great episode . Done in the style of Heat Of The Moment of course .stax

Here's my take...

Date: 5/20/2000
From: Slider_Quinn21

this is how I think it is done...on sliders.

I personally have no idea how its done in the real world.

I think that the plan is that every possibility is already determined(fate), making an infinate amount of quantum signatures.

In actuality, I don't believe in fate, but it applies here.

Let me give an example.

Slider A has quantum signature A

Slider A slides and lands on a world and is involved in a gunfight. He decides to leave, resetting his timer. Then, an alternate Earth is made, and Slider A-2 is created. He goes through the slide and returns home(much like Quinn did in his first slide).

Now, by what you are saying, Slider A-2 would be home, and when Slider A came back, Slider A-2 would be there. That's not right.

There are many sets of evidence in the show. For example:

Summer of Love-Definatly EP-If the doubles of the sliders went in the house on Ice World, survived and then slid back, the FBI wouldn't be looking for them.

The same applies for Into the Mystic, PTSS, and Exodus. Into the Mystic was Earth Prime, and one of those decisions(Ice World...ect.) could have gotten them home already, but Mrs. Mallory is still waiting for Quinn.

PTSS-The same would apply to PTSS Quinn, Wade, and Rembrandt. One of those decisions would have gotten them home.

Exodus-Same as Into the Mystic, but with a twist. Say that the sliders believed the news in Into the Mystic and stayed. By what you say, they have the same quantum signature and would be on Earth Prime already. But when Quinn gets home in that episode, his Mom is still waiting for him. This is because THOSE sliders would be on an alternate Earth Prime.

What I'm saying is that each time a SLIDER makes a decision, a new Earth is created from the ORIGINAL EARTH they were from.

This is just what I take(It could definately be wrong), but I believe that there are a bunch of "Earth Primes" where the Sliders made it home.

As for the quantum signature thing, I have another explanation. I'll use the same above example.

The Slider A that slid early has the same quantum signature, and Slider A-2's quantum signature changes SLIGHTLY, because he would belong to EP-A2.

Now I know that the rule is that quantum signatures don't change, but I think that the change would be very slight and would be almost identical.

NOW THAT'S CONFUSING! But then again, I don't think I'm the guy to ask. :-)

Quinn

Just Egotistical Scientists...

Date: 5/20/2000
From: SingularVisions

I'm quite sure that this "theory" is accurate, but only by about 50%. Come on -- do you REALLY think we have the power to create a new universe based solely on the fact that we decided to or not to step on a crack in the sidewalk? Or even decide to brush our teeth or NOT brush our teeth? Hogwash.

IMO, this theory was created by desperate, egotistical scientists to feed their own ego. To help make them think they're a God or something. However, I would not dismiss this theory quickly. It does have some merit. It MAY be entirely possible that very big decisions in Earth's history could have branched off into different parallel universes based on different outcomes of those decisions.

But I highly doubt that deciding whether or not to step on a crack in the sidewalk would create a new universe with varying possible outcomes as a result of that action. That is too miniscule and insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Think about it.

 

- SingularVisions

Stax_ and buffyboy are both right...

Date: 5/20/2000
From: SliderNum5

Well, not entirely.

buffyboy said that all parallel universes have all been created at the same time. This is correct (at least in the logic of the show).

Stax_, you are saying that when one double, lets say Quinn makes a decision there is another that does another. Lets say Quinn A and Quinn B. Quinn A and Quinn B are not from the same universe, although they have made the same decisions until one decides to slide and the other doesnt. That makes them different.... Although if one were to visit QA and QB's world before this decision would be made, they would find they are exactly alike... therefore making them the same... therefore not making them parallel worlds... or maybe parallel worlds can be exactly alike for awhile. Or something would have to be different with every world right when the big bang happened... I'm confusing myself, and making this theory more of a paradox, so I'll stop.

~SliderNum5

Yeah....

Date: 5/20/2000
From: Slider_Quinn21

That's what I think.

I think that a universe could have a number of quantum signatures until splits occur. So a universe could be universe A,B,and C. Then, a split occurs and Universe B is created, alone. Then there's universe AC until another split happens.

Yeah...that makes sense.
Quinn

HunterDs theory

Date: 5/20/2000
From: HunterD_Raven

First off i msotly agree on Stax.
Also i believe if there are alternate worlds there would be billions or more of them.
Not EVERY choice makes an alternate world (for example, if you breathe you don't create an alternate world)
but SLIGHTLY bigger choices can (example: the other day i was walking to the comic shop and about to go between a parked car that was about to move, and nothing, a second later another car sped up into that slot the other car moved out of. In one alternate world i was killed,or atleast injured. In some alternate world out there i am probably on trial for killing Jerry OC...on another he stayed on sliders and i am his personal bodyguard or something...get it?)
Also i do NOT see how the idea of the multi-verse contradicts ones own free-will.
you made the choices, it's just that somewhere you made a different one.
"Branching" is the best way to put it, i once read in some comic book (Avengers?) about how "People tend to think of time as a straight line, with definite beggining and ends.
In reality time has several paths each one branching off another"
Or like Destinys realm in Sandman.
Destiny does not make people do things, he merely watches what they do in his "garden" a garden with various pathways.The one i have taken thus far,all those i COULD have taken, and all those i COULD take.
HunterD

So.....

Date: 5/20/2000
From: buffyboy

..you're saying that, if one were to go with the "choices make alternate dimensions" theory, only the doubles of the Sliders created AFTER they slid would have the same quantum signatures because they're "splitting" off of one main group?
Well, going with the "split" theory, the "split" doubles would still be from alternate dimensions, and they would each have distinct quantum signatures.

If Group (A) slides off-world from Universe (A), and then a new Group (B) is created as a result of some choice Group (A) made, Group (B) does not hail from Universe (A), rather they originate from Universe (B). If Universe (C) splits off of another choice Group (A) made, Universe (C) AND Group (C) are separate from and have different quantum signatures than Universe/Group (A) and Universe/Group (B), even though both U/G(B) and U/G(C) were created as result of U/G(A).

Group (A) has Quantum Signature (A), Group (B) has Quantum Sig (B), and Group (C) has Quantum Sig (C).

A
|
|---B
|
|---C

Even though (B) and (C) have diverged from the timeline of (A), they are each separate and distinct.

However, nowhere on the show will find a refernece to splits, and therefore the "split" theory has no bearing in the show's continuity.

BB=:~)

BuffyBoy

Date: 5/21/2000
From: QBall79

One episode that refers to earths branching off at choice points is "New Gods for Old", where they visit a cluster of earths branching off from the same choice point.

So it is part of continuity. It's part of the show.

However, I don't think that EVERY choice point causes a split. If that were true, then every universe would be merged and Geiger would be alive.

This theory has been brought up before, and lends itself to some interesting possibilities. Check out http://www.slidersweb.net/conspiracy/ and click on the "Doubles, Splits and Others" link.

Q-Ball79
http://www.slidersweb.net/

Look ...

Date: 5/21/2000
From: Stax_

It was established in New Gods For Old that parallel universes split from each other . It has been mentioned several times in this thread and some of you still continue to ignore it . I'm not saying this is how it occurs in reality , just like becoming unstuck would more than likely not occurr if too much mass is placed within the tunnel , but that is how it happens on Sliders . There is no argument there .stax

Also , Buffyboy ...

Date: 5/21/2000
From: Stax_

Here is a snippet from your argument :

>> If Group (A) slides off-world from Universe (A), and then a new Group (B) is created as a result of some choice Group (A) made, Group (B) does not hail from Universe (A), rather they originate from Universe (B).

Who is to say Group B is not as " valid " as Group A ? Why is it not Group A that originates from Universe B ? Why is the decision Group A makes the decision that allows them to retain their quantum signature ?

 

It is like a fork in the road . Neither of the forks can be defined as the original road . They are different because of the fork . By your logic the left road is the same as the original , the right one is different , for no specific reason . All they share is their origin . If you follow the road all the way back you will arrive on the one road .

By your logic once a split occurs the two sets will take on new quantum signatures which kind of defeats the point .stax

Exactly, Stax.....

Date: 5/21/2000
From: buffyboy

When a parallel universe is created, it has it's own distinct signature. We agree on that.
However, with the "split theory", not only is another group of Sliders created, but a whole new dimension is created, that dimension being the one that the alternate group originates from.

While Group (B) and Group (C) are created as result of Group (A)'s choices, Groups (B)&(C) then must also have distinct points of origin, Universes (B)&(C).

Once a new group is created, a new universe is also created. You can't have one without the other; that much is apparent using logic.

BB=:~)

Also...

Date: 5/21/2000
From: buffyboy

I don't think a fork in the road is valid as evidence for your theory.
While it's true that once the road separates, they do share one point of origin, we are talking about human lives, and to a greater extent, entire universes.

When doubles "split" off of a main group, they are DOUBLES, alternates of the main group, whcih means they have alternate points of origin.
You can't create a "split" without creating another universe in which the split originated from.

BB=:~)

The fork in the road was an analogy

Date: 5/21/2000
From: Stax_

to help you better understand what I'm saying . Look I've explained it as well as I can . Unfortunatley your theory doesn't work out because in World Killer the second population's quantum signature was used to get them home . A split must have occurred during the time spent on Overpopulated World hence by your reasoning rendering their quantum signatures corrupt . That would mean they couldn't get home . You retain your quantum signature no matter what .stax

I didn't say anything about....

Date: 5/21/2000
From: buffyboy

...quantum signatures being "corrupted". Where is that coming from?

And I realize that the fork in the road was an analogy, and I was pointing out that it's one that just won't work in your theory. People's lives aren't dirt paths. You can't simplify things down to that point.

Now, you said this:

------------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunatley your theory doesn't work out because in World Killer the second population's quantum signature was used
to get them home . A split must have occurred during the time spent on Overpopulated World hence by your reasoning rendering their quantum signatures corrupt . That would mean they couldn't get home. You retain your quantum signature no matter what .
------------------------------------------------------------

Of course you retain your quantum signature. Did I say anything about that? No.
The two worlds had two distinct quantum sigs; this is not news to me.

What I'm saying is that EVERY single parallel universe, and EVERY SINGLE ATOM in that universe has that universe's quantum signature, and that, using the "split" theory, EVERY split group from the main one has it's OWN parallel universe in which it originated, and therefore ALL splits have SEPARATE quantum signatures.

I am also trying to demonstrate to you that you CAN'T have MULTIPLE sets of the same beings originating from ONE dimension. Every time a "split" is created, a universe in which that split originated is created as well.
Saying that every double of the Sliders created after they slid also originates from Earth Prime makes NO LOGICAL SENSE WHATSOEVER.

However, as I stated before, the split theory does NOT apply to the show.
If I'm still not making my point clear, please tell me so that I can try to explain it better.

BB=:~)

That's ridiculous.

Date: 5/21/2000
From: QBall79

If our sliders branched off at a certain point in their journey (i.e. they made a different decision and made the slide on Egypt World), it has no bearing on their earth of origin. They aren't in that universe (Earth Prime) anymore, so it doesn't affect it. Each group of "split" sliders shares the same home earth and quantum signatures. When the sliders split in another dimension, Earth Prime does not also split. That idea is ludicrous, because Earth Prime would have no reason to split.

Also, using the illustration above, Egypt World would not become that group's world of origin just because that's where the split occurred. The split doesn't make that world any more "home".

This is not to say that Earth Prime has not split multiple times since our sliders left. That is possible, but it would be independent of anything our sliders would have done apart from when they were on Earth Prime. Examples would be an earth where O.J. Simpson was convicted, or where Bob Dole won the 1996 Presidential race.

Q-Ball79
http://www.slidersweb.net/

About World Killer

Date: 5/21/2000
From: Alan_H

In World Killer it wasn't their quantum signature that was used to send the people home but their slide signature. They are not the same thing.

If New Gods for Old

Date: 5/21/2000
From: Alan_H

If "New Gods for Old" is evidence of spliting then "Dragonslide" is evidence of non spliting after all how can spliting change the laws of physics.

QBall.....

Date: 5/21/2000
From: buffyboy

For the sake of argument, let's say that the split theory is in fact valid in terms of the show's continuity:
I'm saying that if every time the Sliders make a choice a new group is created, that a new dimension is created as well.
A split group can't have the same quantum signature as another group. The split is different from the being it split off, and therefore has a different quantum signature and a different Earth of origin.
So, yes, Earth Prime *is* affected, because a new Earth for the new "split" sliding group must be created in order for those splits to exist at all.

BB=:~)

Replies

Date: 5/21/2000
From: Stax_

Alan_H : It was the quantum signature they used in World Killer . It was the sliding signature they used in Slidecage .

QBall79 : I never said that every time the sliders " split " so does Earth Prime . The road in the analogy represented the sliders with Earth Prime being , say , the town at the beginning . When the sliders split , it's the world they are on that splits with them . I understand that .

P.S Were you addressing me ?

Buffyboy : Here is the kernel of your argument : >> Saying that every double of the Sliders created after they slid also originates from Earth Prime makes NO LOGICAL SENSE WHATSOEVER.

In essence you are saying that the sliders are not from Earth Prime because , remember they are doubles ( to there doubles ) . Doubles are the one person until the split occurs . Imagine that Wade didn't dye her hair . She is a split . You are saying that just because she didn't dye her hair , she didn't originate from Earth Prime .

Frankly there isn't a point debating this with you since you don't except established facts . Splits are part of Sliders continuity . Watch NEW GODS FOR OLD . Both I and QBall79 told you this and you still won't except it .stax

Alan_H

Date: 5/21/2000
From: Stax_

Explain to me how a split universe couldn't have different physics but a pre-existing one could ? stax

Splits are not a part of continuity.....

Date: 5/21/2000
From: buffyboy

The "split" theory was created by fans.
I refuse to accept it becuase it makes no sense when applied to the show's continuity, or anywhere else.

It makes no logical sense to say that every time a decision is made a parallel universe springs into existence. In order for the theory of parallel universes to make logical sense, all parallel universes must have been created at the same time.
Splits have NEVER been mentioned on the show. One sentence referring to choice points doesn't point to a bunch of doubles sharing the same home dimension and quantum signature which goes *against* the show's established continuity.

I will repeat:
The "Split" Theory makes no sense.
It is not a part of Sliders continuity.
Please try and realize that.

BB=:~)

Spliting & Links

Date: 5/21/2000
From: Alan_H

I think that once you slide to other univeres you creat a permanent link between them so that from then on when they split they split as one.

Also splits are retroactive that is a new univere does not come into existence at the time of the split but retroactively at the beginning of time. Which means that just as there is no center to the univere there is no one original univere.

You know what Buffyboy ...

Date: 5/21/2000
From: Stax_

If you are going to start refuting established facts , then this debate is going nowhere . I originally had a far more biting post but you know what , it isn't worth it . I have got stuff to do .stax

*Sigh*

Date: 5/21/2000
From: buffyboy

Stax, *you* are the one lacking knowledge of the facts.

You obviously are not open to logic or reason, so I'll no longer debate this issue with you, as it has no end if you keep twisting what I say around.

I've made my point, and if you don't see it I can't do anything more.

BB=:~)

Sorry kid.

Date: 5/21/2000
From: QBall79

You aren't making sense, buffyboy. We already established that the split theory is alluded to in "New Gods for Old". And it does make sense.

At the time of a split, the sliders that result do not have a different quantum sig because they are not of that world. Earth Prime doesn't split as a result of something that happens in *another universe*! Why would it?

Now, an interesting issue, and one that should really be discussed is this: when Earth Prime splits, is each one assigned a new signature, or does one stay the same as the original? We know they don't both retain the same quantum sig.

I think that maybe one of the EP's would retain the original quantum sig, thus becoming the "base" earth and making the other one, for all intents and purposes, the "carbon copy". The other resulting earths, though not a quantum match to our sliders, would be just as much home as the one which matches.

Q-Ball79
http://www.slidersweb.net/

PS- Stax, I was not addressing you. I was addressing buffyboy. What I've read of your arguments, I've agreed with.

The laws of

Date: 5/21/2000
From: Alan_H

From: Stax_

Explain to me how a split universe couldn't have different physics but a pre-existing one could ?

My Reply:

The laws of physics can be different in different universes if they have always been different, but spliting implies that all of the universes created by the split were exactly the same before they split and therefore the laws of physics must also have been the same.

Now my take on all of this is that while some univeres are created by spliting others are not and even when they are it's retroactive.

Re: Sorry kid

Date: 5/21/2000
From: Alan_H

From: QBall79

<sniped>

Earth Prime doesn't split as a result of something that happens in *another universe*! Why would it?

<sniped>

My Reply:

See spliting & links above.

Yes, but...

Date: 5/21/2000
From: QBall79

...I disagree with your link theory.

Q-Ball79
http://www.slidersweb.net/

Stepping in where he probably shouldn't

Date: 5/21/2000
From: EustiSlider

First off, somebody please give me the quote for NGFO where Diana says that new Universes are *created* at decision points. I'm not questioning that she did, I just don't remember the exact conversation.

That having been said, unless she did use words very similar to that above, Buffyboy's original reply sounds right to me. The way I recall Quinn explaining it, there are countless universes co-existing. They all developed the same up to a certain point in time when something that happened in one universe didn't happen in the others. That point could be referred to as a branch point. This also implies that there are universes that are exactly identical in all past events even today. The only differences are their quantum signatures.

I do know that in Alternateville Horror, Quin states that every univers has its own quantum signature. If the split theory is true (new univers with every choice), then how would each univers get a different signature? And if they do get a different signature then with every choice each set of sliders would also change quantum signatures. This would make it impossible for all but one set of sliders to have a quantum signature the same as Earth Prime, wouldn't it? What would then match up with the 'split' sets of sliders quantum signatures?

--Eusti

Eusti

Date: 5/22/2000
From: QBall79

I don't have an exact quote, but Diana at one point, while looking at her PDL, says that they are passing through a cluster of universes branching off from one choice point.

As for quantum sigs and splits, the sliders that split off would not change their sigs because they are not of that earth. Their quantum sig wouldn't change, but the earth and its natives would be "assigned" a new quantum sig because of the split. I think that one of the earths would retain the original quantum sig while the other would have a slightly different one. There wouldn't be a determining factor as to which earth got which sig - it would just happen, and the one that retained the original sig would be considered the "base earth". The one whose sig changed because of the split would be the "carbon copy".

Q-Ball79
http://www.slidersweb.net/

QBall, Sliding Technical Manual agrees.

Date: 5/22/2000
From: EustiSlider

with you about splits.

"Every time a decision is made, parallel universes are created. For instance, you're driving along, and decide to turn a corner. In one universe, you go left. In the other, you go right. These small and major changes can alter the universe in many ways. Because of this fact and the number of parallel universes, almost any world you can imagine might exist in a parallel universe. A world where America is a communist nation. A world where women are in control instead of men. A world where the dinosaurs never died. These are the worlds of 'Sliders.'"

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8978/about.html

Supposedly the manual is taken both from continuity and current physical theory. Quantum signatures and sliding signatures kind of muddle it up, though. These phenomenon would be more likely to exist if all universes had always been in existence. Still, this is fiction, and we pretty much have to defer to whatever happened on screen. It doesn't answer why there weren't countless sets of sliders waiting on the group we were watching in Into the Mystic, Exodus, or Genesis, but not all questions have good answers.

--Eusti

Signatures

Date: 5/22/2000
From: JorgeCis

It's generally agreed that two doubles cannot have the same quantum signature. So, there can't be two groups of Sliders originating from Earth Prime. Meaning that there's only one group.

Now, one group of Sliders has Wade with brown hair, another with red. If the split theory is considered to be continuity, one of them is the "original", who kept the quantum signature. The other one is the "split". So the "original" should belong to EP, and the "split" belongs somewhere else. I think that EP is NOT affected; instead, I think she originates on the world that was made. She's still a Slider looking for home, except she's already there.

One other thing, though. If quantum signatures cannot be changed, then I think the split theory is not true. Let's look at Wade for a moment, Wade A and Wade B. Right now, only Wade A exists with signature 1. She dies her hair red. Now, Wade B is created. She has brown hair. The problem is that at one point in time, she was, essentially, Wade A, meaning that the two of them had to have shared the same quantum signature. Now, if Wade A and Wade B do not share the same one, then one of them had to have changed. This is a contradiction. So, either:

A) the split theory is true and quantum signatures CAN be the same and CAN change at a point in time (which, I believe, violates the laws of physics, but I could be wrong), OR

B) the universes all started at the same time and ended up differently thanks to random events, thus preserving the uniqueness of quantum signatures.

On a side note, Star Trek: The Next Generation had a wonderful take on sliding in the episode "Parallels." While highly entertaining, I later learned that Worf's sliding actually violated the laws of quantum physics (this can be found in the book, "The Physics of Star Trek", or something with a name close to that). I don't exactly remember why, though.

 

Jorge

JorgeCis

Date: 5/22/2000
From: EustiSlider

While I agree with your argument, it looks like the show just ignored a lot of this. I don't believe that Quin or the Professor ever directly addressed the origin of parallel universes (or different dimensions), but Diana apparently did. Unless there is somewhere else on the show where this is more directly contradicted, we have to accept the split theory. I hate having to rely on a character created after Torme and Weiss left the show, but that seems to be all that we have.

You would think that if there were the possibility that different sets of sliders were constantly being generated with the same quantum signature, somebody on the show would had to have addressed that, but they didn't. Episodes like Times Arrow, and Dragonslide confuse thing even more because neither of these outcomes seem to have followed from a decision or branching point.

--Eusti

My take...

Date: 5/22/2000
From: bowmanj

I covered this once before so I won't go over the whole theory again but I would like to make a couple of points. Picture the multiverse as one big circle with alot of smaller circles in it. Just for convenience call the big circle innerspace. Now assume that each smaller circle is a specific dimension. If a split occured the first circle would remain the same. However, at the moment of the split a kind of quantum echo of that dimension is created. This echo would split off from that dimension and take on matter from innerspace to form a new dimension around it. Since the echo is a distorted image of the new dimension it would have a different quantum signature. When the process is finished you now have a new circle in innerspace which is a complete copy of the first one with some slight differences. Since the whole universe is split both the original universe and the new universe would have an earth prime and different sets of sliders would not be looking for the same world.

Now with reguards to alternate sliders being created by splits that occur as a result of the decisions that a group of sliders makes on an alternate earth, I don't think that that is the case at all. In my opinion splits can only occur based on decisions that are made by people who are native to that dimension, ie. people who have the same quantum signature as the universe in question. As a result the sliders could only cause splits on earth prime and not on any other dimenison since their signatures would not match.

Bowmanj

Okay...

Date: 5/22/2000
From: QBall79

I can believe that a split may give the split slider a new quantum sig, but that doesn't make them any less of an Earth Primer. Their quantum sig may send them to the world where the split occurred, a split version of Earth Prime, or nowhere. Maybe the split from the "Earth Prime" group would be assigned the same quantum sig as a split world from Earth Prime, making everything coordinate in a way. This is not to say that the split on another universe would cause EP to split, or vice versa, but rather each deviation from an original quantum signature is the same, no matter where it takes place. Is that as clear as mud?

Maybe an illustration will get my point across better: Say that three days after the sliders originally slide from EP, EP splits. The "new earth" is assigned a quantum signature. Two days later, our sliders split on another earth. Perhaps the "new group" would be given the same quantum sig as the "new earth". Now that I think about it, it would make perfect sense that way, because they would essentially be under the same conditions.

I still think that the new group may retain the same signature though...

Does this make sense to anyone?

Q-Ball79
http://www.slidersweb.net/

Makes sense but...

Date: 5/22/2000
From: bowmanj

I still don't think that sliders can cause splits in any dimension that is not their own. The only split that I think could be caused by a slider would be their actual arival. This could cause a split in that there would be one universe that they slid into and one universe that they didn't. So any decisions that are made are made in the universe that they arived in and no splits are made afterwards. However, once the sliders leave the universe could split again but since the sliders have already left no copies would be made of them. However both universes would have memories of the sliders having been there.

Bowmanj

It's too much for my tiny little brain

Date: 5/22/2000
From: sweetone

to comprehend. I've been reading the above posts and now I have a headache.
I think that most of the parallel worlds were created at the same time. I'm not saying that there are no branch offs however, I don't think that small decisions would cause a new parallel world to form. I also don't think that new worlds would be caused from the sliders. I think that a group of worlds (clulster) that are almost identical, would be caused by the fact that all major decisions are the same on each world. Maybe spin off, or Daughter worlds does not happen because of a single decision, but because over time, for no explanation, they split.
The only world that was brought into exsistance on purpose, by Geiger could not be contained and therefore self-destructed.

But that's only my opinion.

Sweetie

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