Nice
does not equal Friend (NSR) Date: 12/1/99
From: TemporalFlux
It disturbs me that an increasing segment of this board seems to believe that "nice" automatically equals "friend". I don't know how many of you are religious...or how many have even bothered to read a portion of the Bible...but this should be a fundamental thing here.
The Devil is the nicest person you will ever meet. He will offer you the sky...compliment you on everything...and always agree with you. Anything to keep you on his side. But does he mean it? No...he is the prince of lies. Whatever it takes...that is his motto.
Meanwhile you have God. God doesn't bend over backwards to make you like Him. If you screw up, He calls you on it and busts your chops. He doesn't sugar coat it...He doesn't try to make you "feel" good about what you've done. Instead He's more interested in being honest and helping you be a better person...and He isn't always nice about it.
Now, this is meant to be a stark example. I am not comparing myself or anyone else to either of these (that would be ludicrous). But this should slap in your face that nice does not equal friend...just as "mean" does not equal enemy. Of course...what do I know, maybe you consider a teacher mean for busting your chops. They don't do it for kicks...they do it to *teach* something. Of course, that assumes that you want to learn.
I am by no means the ultimate authority on the subject of Sliders...just as no teacher is the ultimate authority on their subject. But I believe I know a damn bit more than most and I've talked to a great deal more with the show than most...I've proven that time and again. That should garner some level of respect at least to my facts if not my person (and what am I almost always correcting people on...facts). If you don't want to learn, then you should know where the door is. I don't see anyone restraining you here...and all of I've seen from your "contributions" is the loss of better people (some of whom *were* with the show) who were smart enough to realize they didn't have to put up with you. The only reason I'm still here is because I realize you are not everyone and I am the only person who can convey this info. That's not conceit...that's just fact (unless you can prove me wrong by pointing out other places you could have gotten it).
I felt this needed to be posted...and yes, I realize it is a separate post. But that seems to be okay with my attackers...so why not one for me? Why should I always be the only person who "plays by the rules"? I'm sick of being a whipping boy because I care.
I apologize to anyone else who had to read to this...but you can blame it on a bunch of sometimes posters who come here at least in part to keep conflict going and don't care about anything related to this show (other than their own worthless opinions - and yes, my opinions are worthless too before anyone asks...but my facts are not).
Tf
temporalflux@hotmail.com
http://www.dimensionofcontinuity.com
That
title certainly caught my attention
Date: 12/1/99
From: LiquidSunshine
There's a nice solid "duh" statement. "Nice doesn't equal friend." I think anyone who's been conned could agree to that or anyone who has to deal with office politics.
I suppose this is what I get for skimming the boards lately. I miss all the ickle stuff leading up to a post like this. Well, for what it's worth I do read the stuff I see with your handle attached and I appreciate the information provided. I don't usually respond--which could be a bad thing.--because I don't think I have anything to say that would garner much notice. The rare occasions I do post or reply don't seem to make a difference in where the board is going with attitude or courtesy.
I'm frankly impressed that you care enough about the online Sliders community to continue posting on a regular basis (with solid information) when you feel like a whipping boy. Another thing I appreciate about you. [No I don't assume people who are nice or have good information are my friends.]
Peace
RainOn a completely random unrelated note...The focus of this board has changed dramatically since the cancellation of Sliders was announced. Half of the posts don't seem to be science fiction related even. What do you see as the new focus of the board?
It's
not right...
Date: 12/1/99
From: CaptMaggie
I don't know... I agree with you on that soem people are conmen (and women...). But, there are plenty of people who are nice to people on this board, and who I consider to be my friends. Am I wrong to think that? I thought that this board was a communtiy. Before the X-Files board was totally redone, we had a community in the SR 185 or whatever the heck it was called room, and we all knew each other, we all talked, and we all where quite nice to each other, and we were friends. I was hoping the same thing would happen on this board, regardless of the once in a while spammers and such. I fwe really want to ever truly have a connection, shouldn't we be friends? If not, what is the point of all this anyway? I can have the same conversations I have here with myself and get the same benift if we all just gonna "be nice" to each other.
Maggie
Go
Rain!
Date: 12/1/99
From: MTwain
I feel similar about TF's post!
I also feel that the content of the two Slider related boards that I frequent have changed lately and it's sad.
MT
Amen
Date: 12/1/99
From: QBall79
I agree with LS and MTwain wholeheartedly, as well as with the points Tf has made. You're a good friend, Tf, and I'm glad you have had the tenacity to wade through all the virtual crap that has fallen along your path. Someone's got to set the record straight, and more often than not, you have been a big part of doing just that. Here's to you, man.
*Raises glass*
Your
facts are worthless, man!
Date: 12/1/99
From: Bunky34
Criminy, TF!
Talk about getting on your HIGH horse. You pull in the Bible to preach to us now.
Look, your opinion is as equal as anyone else's opinion. However, you reverse the entire argument by saying that y are better than anyone's opinion? Wrong, your facts are not even facts.
Please read Hayden White or Northrop Frye to get an understanding of this argument: facts do not exist.
Historical "facts" are basically the perspective of an individual who may have seen something happen. This person, however, is not a mind reader or privy to the myriad of events occuring at a single instant.
This person's perception of the historical "fact" is biased by their own upbringing, their hopes, fears, dreams, and aspirations -- not to mention, what they ate at their last meal.
Historical facts do not exist because they are so open to interpretation. For instance, the history book called The Fall of the Roman Empire attributed the fall of the Roman Empire to the rise of Christianity. The historian simply ignored other socio-economic and political facts that did not support his argument.
The historian had a certain viewpoint that he wanted to get across to an audience, so he skewed the "facts" to support his arguments.
You are very guilty of performing this act each time that you quote your sources or argue that you have "facts." The same "facts" that you espouse can be writted to show a very different opinion of events.
The facts are not conclusive proof of anything. Hindsight is rarely, if ever, 20/20. The facts only show that you have researched the recorded accounts surrounding a particular event.
Your Ultimate FAQ is filled with non-sequitors and various assumptions built upon the worst kind of conspiracy theory.
You attack people for having opinions, expressing themselves, and more because you supposedly have a better grasp of the "facts" than anyone else.
You must lived a stress-filled life! You probably experience tension from someone challenging your fragile perception of "reality" because you must balance your "perception of reality" with the way things really are.
I suggest reading the short story by Katherine Anne Porter called Flowering Judas. I imagine your life is much like the life of porter's protaganist Laura, who lives a life filled with tension as she must reconcile the conflicting images of her past with the reality of her present.
I imagine your life is something like that.
Please don't quote the Bible. I am teaching a Seasons of Faith class every other Monday evening. Your interpretation of the Bible is also an interpretation. no more valid than the people in my Bible study class.
I have a Christian heart, too. You invoke Christ, but you flame people who do not share your opinion but stating "facts" that only support your viewpoint(s). You invoke Christ and stand in judgement of others. You invoke Christ, but FLAME people. You invoke Christ, but you use swear words frequently when you come across a differing opinion. You invoke Christ, but you show little, or no, patience with other people.
To me, TF to quote you, "I find that really ironic."
I think you have a lot of talent and can really spend your time doing things in a more constructive manner. Your website is really informative and interesting. You seem to have visual flair.
You need to work on taking constructive criticism from people. I donot have all of the answers. But, I think you should really ask yourself why so many people are saying virtually the same thing here.
Take a look at yourself. Be truthful. How do you see yourself?
How do other people see you?
Do they match up? Or are they diametrically opposed?
The answer is probably somewhere in the middle.
Peace be with you,
Bunky34
Xlnt
post...
Date: 12/1/99
From: jlbanker
I love this post ... this is so true. In this day and age there is this stupid tollerance movement that is against all arguing... everyone has to agree. Though I find myself doing this too much here at times I try to say if I disagree with someone and try not to be a YES MAN. With your posts TF I never have any complaints. You are usually right and if you have doubts about something you say it.
JLBanker
...hiding
the whip.
Date: 12/1/99
From: Yeontoo
Dear TemporalFlux,
Sur, you seem to be an easy and handy target for such nasty slurs. Thank you, sur, for your time and patience with such a person.
The question does beg itself, dear; how could I hide that old hide whip from those who would use it?
Meanwhile, I'll raise my glass with QBall79. *clink*
Blessings
Yeontoo
Uh,
Bunky...
Date: 12/1/99
From: JorgeCis
Bunky,
Many people say the same thing about Jerry O'Connell: that he sucks. Many other people say something else, but are saying the same thing: that Sliders sucks without Jerry.
Just because people agree on something does not necessarily mean they're right. Didn't you just say so yourself? TF's actions (or anyone's, for that matter) are good or bad based on someone's interpretation. So what if many people have the same interpretation? That proves nothing. That doesn't mean it's the RIGHT interpretation.
Who are we to judge anyone? Bunky, do you by any chance remember the story of the prostitute in the Bible, when she was about to get stoned?
Jorge
Re:
Jorge
Date: 12/1/99
From: Bunky34
My point about interpretation is about the facts.
TF always points that he knows the facts. The problem is his/her "facts" are skewed by his/her own interpretation of them. That is my point.
Yes, I remember the story of the prostitute.
Do you remember the story of the Golden Calf in the Old Testament? Or the commandent of bearing false witness?
I do not want to get into a digression of biblical stories because we can fall into the trap of arguing over the Biblical principles rather than the issue of the way TF often treats folks.
I think you should disagree with TF to see how he/she responds to get a pretty good understanding about what type of person that TF can be.
I firmly believe in the Golden Rule and being dignified in a Christian manner to anyone. TF should follow the same ettiquette.
Really, Jorge would you like responses about the size of "man-ness" <cough. . .cough> because you happened to disagree with a small part of someone's explanation?
This happened to me in one response by TF.
There is a bit of a history there.
Thanks,
Bunky34
To
Bunky
Date: 12/1/99
From: misswells
I hope you get to read this. As I started to read your reply, I was angry (that you were so rude to TF), but then, I got it.
(He did say "and yes, my opinions are worthless too before anyone asks", so you are wrong about that . . . and that's not an interpretation.)
But your history/facts theory interested me. You need to be more specific, however. It may have been the author's interpretation on *how* the Roman Empire fell, but the fact that it fell is not an interpretation. Also, there was a war between the Northern states of America and the Southern ones. It is called by most, the Civil War. That happened. That is a fact. But, you're right, it's only my opinion that Hitler was a nasty guy, and Napoleon was a loser (with a good idea about the brass sleeve-buttons--again, an opinion)
But, have you considered that first of all, your assesment of TF is an interpretation--you don't have *any* of the facts, let alone the important ones, and second of all, that your bit on facts is also an interpretation? Perhaps the Roman Empire *was* caused to fall by Christianity.
And I don't understand what you teaching a class has to do with anything. Not only do I attend Church every Sunday, but I have a "Scripture Study" every morning (except on weekends), and I go to a Bible "Study" at school every Friday. Does that mean my interpretation is more valid than yours? because that's what I got from your reference to your Seasons of Faith class. The Bible is open to interpretation, in fact, you *have* to interpret, because it's all in parables (or, most of it, anyway)! And I didn't read any Bible quotes, just an assertation of who God is, and who Satan is, in reference to what a friend is. A pretty good assertation, I thought.
Now, I've tried to be as open as possible, and to not accuse anyone of anything, but I'll say this: judgmentn lies not with you, but with God. Leave it alone, and read more carefully.
Go with God.
A Dieu. ('Go with God' in French)
Slide on.
See you at the beach.
misswells
TF
you had some good points....
Date: 12/1/99
From: Compactdisc
It kind of like being a teenager your parents punish you for what you did wrong.. You do not understand it at the time but, as you start your family you start to understand why you were punished.
Kelly
What?!?
Date: 12/1/99
From: TemporalFlux
First off, I appreciate the other responses.
But to Bunky...you condemn me for getting high and mighty when you start bringing up your church credentials?!? You say that being around longer isn't a basis for being better...yet at *every* opportunity you have shoved your Master's Degree in all our faces like it gives you some authority at a Sliders board. And to top it off...you dare talk about bearing false witness? I'm not making this crap up...look through the Stage 2 SIY discussions. On several occasions he flat lied about things I had done...with never a correction or an apology. And if TimerPrime deems to get involved, we are about to see even *another* flat lie by you. It has nothing to do with interpretation...you have warped the facts completely beyond recognition!
I pity you sir...and if you want to talk about religion, I pray you find your way soon. If not, then good luck at the Judgement Seat...I can't say what God's judgement of you would be (He is much more merciful than I could ever be and knows more than I could ever know)...but I personally wouldn't want to be in your shoes based on what I've seen.
Tf
temporalflux@hotmail.com
http://www.dimensionofcontinuity.com
Bunky
Date: 12/1/99
From: JorgeCis
I have no intentions on arguing with neither you nor Temporal Flux. There's no point for me to start a fight for the sake of it. I discuss, not argue, or at least most of the time, I do. :-)
But my point on interpretation still stands. You said yourself that "facts" are interpretations. Then you said a lot of people feel a certain way towards TF. That doesn't make it a "fact" by your post; it makes it an interpretation. And like I said, just because people have the SAME interpretation does not make it the RIGHT interpretation.
Jorge
A
little of everything
Date: 12/1/99
From: Slider_Sarah
Tf, you've always been nice to me. well, most of the time :-) You've earned my respect and you've always shown me respect. On the couple of times that I have shouted at you, you've apologised for what made me shout at you in the first place (the only example I can think of though is a Roads Taken disagreement between you and Exec where I shouted at you both). You've been patient with my admittably strange questions and I've enjoyed talking to you.
You're right that nice does not equal friend, just as the enemy of your enemy is not your friend. Otherwise where does the phrase 'cruel to be kind' come from?
I'm not going into the religious stuff because I know I'll make a mess of it, but to anyone who thinks otherwise, he wasn't comparing himself to got! Just using it as an example.
misswells is right IMHO, there are such things as facts. However, interpretations of the facts are something completely different and we learn to realise this in history. But there are facts. Sliders is cancelled is a fact. No matter how you look at it, as a TV show, it is currently cancelled. Sliders shouldn't have been cancelled is open to interpretation. Tf has been correct with much of his info in the past, admittably not al, but then some info is subject to change along the line. Not all of mine is always correct.
Can we get this board out of the rut of bickering that we seem to have gotton into? And can we stop finding people to pick on just for the sake of it.
There are people on this board I consider my friends, others who are nice but I don't consider my friends and people who I don't like. I don't tend to flame unless I get pulled into it somehow.
This has progressed so much int he couple of hours I've been away that I expect this will be out of date by the time people read this. and I can't remember anything else that people wrote.
I raise a glass to friendship!
Sarah.
Time
for some De-Bunking.
Date: 12/1/99
From: Blinker
> But, I think you should really ask
> yourself why so many people are
> saying virtually the same thing here.And hot 7:-#, they ARE!
"I'm frankly impressed that you care enough about the online Sliders community to continue posting on a regular basis (with solid information) when you feel like a whipping boy. Another thing I appreciate about you." -- LiquidSunshine
"Go Rain! I feel similar about TF's post!" -- MTWain
"I agree with LS and MTwain wholeheartedly, as well as with the points Tf has made. You're a good friend, Tf, and I'm glad you have had the tenacity to wade through all the virtual crap that has fallen along your path. Someone's got to set the record straight, and more often than not, you have been a big part of doing just that. Here's to you, man." -- QBall79
"With your posts TF I never have any complaints. You are usually right and if you have doubts about something you say it." -- jlbanker
"Sur, you seem to be an easy and handy target for such nasty slurs. Thank you, sur, for your time and patience with such a person ... Meanwhile, I'll raise my glass with QBall79. *clink* " --Yeontoo
"Just because people agree on something does not necessarily mean they're right. Didn't you just say so yourself? TF's actions (or anyone's, for that matter) are good or bad based on someone's interpretation. So what if many people have the same interpretation? That proves nothing. That doesn't mean it's the RIGHT interpretation." -- JorgeCis
"TF you had some good points.... It kind of like being a teenager your parents punish you for what you did wrong.. You do not understand it at the time but, as you start your family you start to understand why you were punished." -- Compactdisc
"But, have you considered that first of all, your assesment of TF is an interpretation--you don't have *any* of the facts, let alone the important ones, and second of all, that your bit on facts is also an interpretation? Perhaps the Roman Empire *was* caused to fall by Christianity." -- misswells
"Tf, you've always been nice to me. well, most of the time :-) You've earned my respect and you've always shown me respect. On the couple of times that I have shouted at you, you've apologised for what made me shout at you in the first place (the only example I can think of though is a Roads Taken disagreement between you and Exec where I shouted at you both). You've been patient with my admittably strange questions and I've enjoyed talking to you." -- Slider_Sarah
Allow me to add one of my own.
"Tf: Your friendship and efforts on all of our behalfs are appreciated more than you'll ever know. I hope I've been of some small assistance in tearing down the endless crap you seem to be faced with. And as usual, you have said precisely what I was thinking before I could finish formulating it. One day, sir, you are going to make one hell of a fine lawyer." -- Blinker
Bunkman: you're outnumbered, out-argued and thoroughly outwitted. While I'm at it, you're also full of bunk.
> But, I think you should really ask
> yourself why so many people are
> saying virtually the same thing here.To toss it right back at you, "I find that really ironic."
- Blinker 7:-I
http://welcome.to/gate_haven
- HEAVENLY CHORUS -
Bill loves interns,
Gates loves bu-ucks,
Everyone else, loves Temp Flu-ux!- BUNKY -
Not me!- CHORUS -
Everyone who counts, loves Temp Flu-ux!
My
worthless opinion....
Date: 12/1/99
From: Fish_Bone
Yes, but look what God has to put up with. My father was hard on me (As i am sure your fathers were the same) and later on in life, i found out why....ever had kids? ;-)
But really, we are all in this mad house together. (The mad house that is life) We should always be nice to each other. Some of the things TemporalFlux says will end up giving him a black eye in real life, even if its the truth. My opinion?
keep your mouth shut unless you need to do something. For example:Lets say you see a father spanking his kid, should you say something? "Hey, you can't do that!" No, because its none of your business. But if you see a 30 year old man beating a 90 year old woman, get off your ass and kick that mans ass! LOL!
Bottom Line: You should always be nice to other people.
Fish Bone
To
Blinker
Date: 12/2/99
From: Bunky34
Blinker,
I have to tell you that you always make me laugh.
And this time, you have made me laugh at myself. You are right!
De-bunking! and the "chorus" line <pun intended> was pure genius.
Thanks,
Bunky34
To
misswells
Date: 12/2/99
From: Bunky34
The facts as interpretation is not mine.
The "fact that Sliders is cancelled" is not really a historical fact in the truest sense. Please, I ask for a little lattitude here. I am trying to explain historical facts are not-existent theory espoused by Northrop Frye and Hayden White.
Yes, Sliders was/is cancelled. However, if we try to put it into a timeline to sequence the events in some kind of historical order, then we end up sorting according to our own pre-conceived notions of genre and closure.
Case in point. One historian tried to sequence the events of the French Revolution according to the date when an event occurred. The problem was a series of people would die on one day during the "Bloody Reign."
Who do you put first in the sequence? What determines the order? How can place one person's death above another?
Yes, there was a Civil War. Can you accurately show every event that occurs everyday to fully understand the sequence of events that occured? No, not really.
To understand history, we put together events that seem to support various arguments as to why something occurred in history. According to White and Frye, history is as much fiction as anything else.
In this respect, the truth with a capital "T" does not exist because it is up to the interpretation of the person.
To me, alot of folks seem to see "Truth" in TF's statements. I think TF's assessments about Sliders are accurate and appreciate his input.
However, at certain times, TF argues/debates with a person about their interpretation of the "facts." In my previous post, the "facts" are worthless argument was my attempt to explain that TF's "facts" are really just interpretations of events.
Again, an interpretation is subject to the whims and insights of that person. An interpretation is neither wrong nor right.
Yes, the Bible is all interpretation (or faith). Your reading is as equally valid as my reading or the Pope's interpretation or your church's priest/minister/pastor.
FYI, Seasons of Faith is a program administered by the Catholic church where families get together to discuss various readings in the Bible throughout the year. The readings usually follow the readings for the homily. Workbooks are distributed with question for discussion and journaling.
The Church also offers FIRE for smaller children to also have a program to discuss various readings with activities to further their understanding.
I hate to discuss religion in this kind of forum because the people really have their own personal relationship with God based on their own upbringing and past experiences. No one's personal relationship with God should be questioned.
If I have offended anyone about their relationship with God, it was purely unintentional.
Thanks,
Bunky34PS Read Blinker's response on this vein. It is absolutely hilarious! Thanks again.
Latitude?
Date: 12/2/99
From: TemporalFlux
Why is it that Bunky only believes in getting latitude for himself? Has anyone seen him give latitude to another? Funny how things change when suddenly the shoe begins to be placed on the other foot.
Tf
temporalflux@hotmail.com
http://www.dimensionofcontinuity.com
Latitude,
part 2
Date: 12/2/99
From: Bunky34
The only latitude that was being discussed was about the theory by Hayden White and Northrop Frye.
I was only asking for some latitude to explain the theory rather than extended some personal latitude towards me.
I apologize for not making that clear.
Thanks,
Bunky34
Original URL http://www.scifi.com/bboard/browse.cgi/1/5/545/15218
Nominated by QBall79
